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Envious
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2003
Posts: 1821
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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 Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: Is this a 'wool' headliner?? |
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I'm having a really hard time with my headliner purchase. I've decided that I'm going to buy from WCCR especially after speaking with them today.
My problem is that everybody keeps calling the headliner wool and mine is more like linen. I kind of doubt that it's been replaced considering the rest of my car is more or less virgin.
On a side note, the headliner appears to be stiched to the vinyl under the quater windows. You can see it in one of the pics. Is this factory?
Is this considered wool or aftermarket? Should it be stitched?
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71 Type 1302 Custom
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glutamodo 
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26309
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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I've seen original "mohair" or "mouse fuzz" type headliners lose their "fuzziness" over the years. I'm not too familiar with the Ovals thought so I'm not sure that is the case with you. My very first bug was a 61 ragtop, which I had to retire due to severe rust. The headliner was all original, and there was no "fuzz" left on it. However - I saved a piece of it, where it was folded over where the grab handle/coat hook bolted through it. Underneath that fold, was the original texture! Here's a scan of that piece - which I've kept stashed away in the pages of an old owner's manual for years now - you can plainly see the difference between the exposed and protected portions. The exposed part looks quite like yours does.
I just took an ultra-closeup photo of that 1961 sample, to compare it with your shot, and here it is - looks pretty close to me!
Here's two more photos, the first is the "fuzz" side, the 2nd is the "back, non-fuzz" side:
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my03yellowv
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Joined: July 10, 2005
Posts: 420
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes the headliner is stitched together with the Vinyl/leatherette material under the quarter windows originally on the older oval...I believe your headliner is probably the orig factory headliner. I used the cloth headliner to replace mine and I am happy with it. Mohair to me is too exspensive and overrated. |
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Envious
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2003
Posts: 1821
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
I've seen original "mohair" or "mouse fuzz" type headliners lose their "fuzziness" over the years. I'm not too familiar with the Ovals thought so I'm not sure that is the case with you. My very first bug was a 61 ragtop, which I had to retire due to severe rust. The headliner was all original, and there was no "fuzz" left on it. However - I saved a piece of it, where it was folded over where the grab handle/coat hook bolted through it. Underneath that fold, was the original texture! Here's a scan of that piece - which I've kept stashed away in the pages of an old owner's manual for years now - you can plainly see the difference between the exposed and protected portions. The exposed part looks quite like yours does.
I just took an ultra-closeup photo of that 1961 sample, to compare it with your shot, and here it is - looks pretty close to me!
Here's two more photos, the first is the "fuzz" side, the 2nd is the "back, non-fuzz" side:
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THANKS!! That's exactly the confirmation I've been looking for.
It was really difficult speaking with Lenny at WCCR who assured me that my car should have wool but I felt that my headliner is original and it doesn't look anything like wool. Deep down, I knew the guy had to be right but it made me question the unrestored condition of my car.
_________________
71 Type 1302 Custom
64 Type 151
63 Type 117 L469 Anthracite
64 Type 361 L575 Nutria
64 Porsche 356c
56 Type 113 L227 Strato Silver
52 BSA C11G
59 Heilite Single Wheel Camping Trailer
56 Allstate Single Wheel
84 Vanagon Westfalia
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Envious
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2003
Posts: 1821
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| my03yellowv wrote: |
| Yes the headliner is stitched together with the Vinyl/leatherette material under the quarter windows originally on the older oval...I believe your headliner is probably the orig factory headliner. I used the cloth headliner to replace mine and I am happy with it. Mohair to me is too exspensive and overrated. |
Thanks!
_________________
71 Type 1302 Custom
64 Type 151
63 Type 117 L469 Anthracite
64 Type 361 L575 Nutria
64 Porsche 356c
56 Type 113 L227 Strato Silver
52 BSA C11G
59 Heilite Single Wheel Camping Trailer
56 Allstate Single Wheel
84 Vanagon Westfalia
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Nessy
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2004
Posts: 424
Location: Wales,UK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Envious wrote: |
| glutamodo wrote: |
I've seen original "mohair" or "mouse fuzz" type headliners lose their "fuzziness" over the years. I'm not too familiar with the Ovals thought so I'm not sure that is the case with you. My very first bug was a 61 ragtop, which I had to retire due to severe rust. The headliner was all original, and there was no "fuzz" left on it. However - I saved a piece of it, where it was folded over where the grab handle/coat hook bolted through it. Underneath that fold, was the original texture! Here's a scan of that piece - which I've kept stashed away in the pages of an old owner's manual for years now - you can plainly see the difference between the exposed and protected portions. The exposed part looks quite like yours does.
I just took an ultra-closeup photo of that 1961 sample, to compare it with your shot, and here it is - looks pretty close to me!
Here's two more photos, the first is the "fuzz" side, the 2nd is the "back, non-fuzz" side:
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THANKS!! That's exactly the confirmation I've been looking for.
It was really difficult speaking with Lenny at WCCR who assured me that my car should have wool but I felt that my headliner is original and it doesn't look anything like wool. Deep down, I knew the guy had to be right but it made me question the unrestored condition of my car. |
Am glad you've posted this as was wondering the same thing; my '53 headliner looks identical to your '56!
So the concensus is that your car has the OG factory headliner and that it is wool?
Have seen a few show-quality ovals here in the UK all with mohair headliners which looked too plush to me , and like you said in your original post, my headliner looks more like cotton or linen....
So, is it a wool headliner with the fuzz worn off over the years or doesn't the wool fabric have any fuzz?......
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Envious
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2003
Posts: 1821
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Nessy wrote: |
Have seen a few show-quality ovals here in the UK all with mohair headliners which looked too plush to me , and like you said in your original post, my headliner looks more like cotton or linen....
So, is it a wool headliner with the fuzz worn off over the years or doesn't the wool fabric have any fuzz?......
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I don't think the correct wool fabric is as fuzzy as most of the reproduction headliners. You can see a close up of the weave here.
http://www.himmelservice.de/english/himmeltuch7.htm
_________________
71 Type 1302 Custom
64 Type 151
63 Type 117 L469 Anthracite
64 Type 361 L575 Nutria
64 Porsche 356c
56 Type 113 L227 Strato Silver
52 BSA C11G
59 Heilite Single Wheel Camping Trailer
56 Allstate Single Wheel
84 Vanagon Westfalia
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Nessy
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2004
Posts: 424
Location: Wales,UK
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Envious wrote: |
| Nessy wrote: |
Have seen a few show-quality ovals here in the UK all with mohair headliners which looked too plush to me , and like you said in your original post, my headliner looks more like cotton or linen....
So, is it a wool headliner with the fuzz worn off over the years or doesn't the wool fabric have any fuzz?......
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I don't think the correct wool fabric is as fuzzy as most of the reproduction headliners. You can see a close up of the weave here.
http://www.himmelservice.de/english/himmeltuch7.htm |
Ahh, thank you, it all makes sense now.....all those ovals with really fuzzy headliners looked far too luxurious to my eye  .
See what you mean by the wool fabric having less fuzz, thanks!
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IN2VWS
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Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 2521
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:43 am Post subject: |
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Not sure if this will help at all.
These are samples from Happich from the late 1950's.
I am not sure what the last pic was used for. It was in the book called "Trikot-Tusche".
In the past when I have shown these samples, I get messages asking if I can cut off a small sample and send it to them. The answer in NO, so don't bother asking.
John
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johnshenry
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Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| IN2VWS wrote: |
Not sure if this will help at all.
These are samples from Happich from the late 1950's.
I am not sure what the last pic was used for. It was in the book called "Trikot-Tusche".
In the past when I have shown these samples, I get messages asking if I can cut off a small sample and send it to them. The answer in NO, so don't bother asking.
John
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John, the stuff you have is amazing. Just when I thought I have seen it all.......... 
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Envious
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Joined: January 08, 2003
Posts: 1821
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| John, the stuff you have is amazing. Just when I thought I have seen it all.......... |
Ain't that the truth. That's incredible. I've heard of green wool headliners but I've never actually seen the colour before. Thanks for posting.
_________________
71 Type 1302 Custom
64 Type 151
63 Type 117 L469 Anthracite
64 Type 361 L575 Nutria
64 Porsche 356c
56 Type 113 L227 Strato Silver
52 BSA C11G
59 Heilite Single Wheel Camping Trailer
56 Allstate Single Wheel
84 Vanagon Westfalia
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IN2VWS
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jooles
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Joined: August 29, 2008
Posts: 235
Location: Bulgaria / France
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Nice book 
Do you know when was the green headliner used? With which body/upholstery colours?
Very nice to see a sample of the green upholstery for a 54 beetle...
Thanks!
Julien |
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IN2VWS
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 2521
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| jooles wrote: |
Nice book
Do you know when was the green headliner used? With which body/upholstery colours?
Very nice to see a sample of the green upholstery for a 54 beetle...
Thanks!
Julien |
Not sure of all years, but Light Green headliners were used on the last of the ovals, from April 1956, on L41 Black and L324 Polar Silver Deluxe sedans.
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Envious
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Joined: January 08, 2003
Posts: 1821
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| IN2VWS wrote: |
| In with the same lot was a book with seat material samples. |
Seriously cool. Thanks again for posting. Those photos made my decision easy. WW doesn't look anything close to original. I placed my order with WCCR.
_________________
71 Type 1302 Custom
64 Type 151
63 Type 117 L469 Anthracite
64 Type 361 L575 Nutria
64 Porsche 356c
56 Type 113 L227 Strato Silver
52 BSA C11G
59 Heilite Single Wheel Camping Trailer
56 Allstate Single Wheel
84 Vanagon Westfalia
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Agave58
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Joined: March 14, 2008
Posts: 1190
Location: Central California
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Wasn't Wool used in Beetles up to March 1956, then switched to cloth until 62? I was also under the impreesion that Wolfsburg West gets thier headliner fabric from WCCR?
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IN2VWS
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Joined: January 29, 2006
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Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Ask Lenny if he supplies WW.
On the cover of the books shown above, one says "HALBWOLL TUCHE". I think this translates to Half Wool Cloth.
Maybe one book is the wool and the other the later cloth. I don't have enough experience, or know how to tell the differences by looking at them. Is there someway of differentiating them by looking at the different materials?
Some useless trivia......In Australia we had vinyl headliners from 1959. It wasn't the perforated later style. There awas a one year only, checkered pattern in 1959, and then it went to a striped pattern in 1960.
As seen here:
http://www.in2vws.com/images/stories/easygallery/62/1182133258_59%20seats.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa28/in2vws_com/mycars/PICT0009.jpg
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Envious
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Joined: January 08, 2003
Posts: 1821
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Agave wrote: |
| Wasn't Wool used in Beetles up to March 1956, then switched to cloth until 62? I was also under the impreesion that Wolfsburg West gets thier headliner fabric from WCCR? |
I'm not sure but I have swatches from WW and they look nothing like the samples from West Coast Classic.
When I called WCCR, Lenny was more than confident that my headliner should be wool. That's why I was unsure about starting the thread. Who the hell am I to question Lenny Copp?? When I mentioned to him that my headliner looked like linen more than wool he assured me of his credentials How could I argue with his track record.
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71 Type 1302 Custom
64 Type 151
63 Type 117 L469 Anthracite
64 Type 361 L575 Nutria
64 Porsche 356c
56 Type 113 L227 Strato Silver
52 BSA C11G
59 Heilite Single Wheel Camping Trailer
56 Allstate Single Wheel
84 Vanagon Westfalia
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Nessy
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Location: Wales,UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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I had a good look at he headliner of my '53 today , and sure enough at first glance it does look like linen.........
However, if you get really close then it does appear to have a fair bit of fuzz, didn't take any pictures but it does seem less fuzzy than the really plush headliners I've seen in restored cars.....
This is all acadamic now though as have decided to keep the OG headliner, complete with its rips and stains , there's nothing like a bit of patina .
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Envious
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Posts: 1821
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Nessy wrote: |
I had a good look at he headliner of my '53 today , and sure enough at first glance it does look like linen.........
However, if you get really close then it does appear to have a fair bit of fuzz, didn't take any pictures but it does seem less fuzzy than the really plush headliners I've seen in restored cars.....
This is all acadamic now though as have decided to keep the OG headliner, complete with its rips and stains , there's nothing like a bit of patina . |
This has turned into a great thread. I've learned a tonne. Unfortunately, I think mine is a little beyond "a bit of patina"
_________________
71 Type 1302 Custom
64 Type 151
63 Type 117 L469 Anthracite
64 Type 361 L575 Nutria
64 Porsche 356c
56 Type 113 L227 Strato Silver
52 BSA C11G
59 Heilite Single Wheel Camping Trailer
56 Allstate Single Wheel
84 Vanagon Westfalia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=388225 |
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