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rjonas Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2004 Posts: 644 Location: Chandler, AZ
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: Limited slip / locking differential? |
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Spent most of my lunch hour "searching" threads and topics but to no avail.
Is there any posi, limited slip or locking differential available for baywindow bus transmissions.
I have a 73 Westfalia SUVW with ~ 2" lift and 215/75R15 BFG A/T tires.
Looks tuff and has lots of ground clearance but....
This past weekend while camping in Columbia, MO the little lady and I decided to take the westy on a safari (after having a few cocktails) to explore my cousins 500 acre farm. Mostly in the CRP so there are no crops just tall grass, wildflowers and summer wheat and he brush hogs down a 12' wide perimeter around the fields. First gear at a good clip keeping my momentum up until I came through a wet spot and...zing...zing...I was stuck. Not deep, just wet grass with 1-2" of mud and I gave up before I really got buried. Right rear tire just spun, left one...zilch. Embarrassed I called up my cousin to rescue me. A tiny tug with a Polaris 4-wheeler and I was free. I am confident that if the left tire did anything at all I would not have been stuck.
Signed,
Humbled in Missouri _________________ 1979 Type-2 Westfalia “Sandy”
1973 Type-181 Thing "Velma"
1956 Type-1 Beetle Patina Project “Rosie”
www.azbusclub.org |
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Jeff Geisen Samba Chaplain
Joined: December 21, 2004 Posts: 1881 Location: N.W. Georgia
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:26 am Post subject: |
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There are LSD's available for bay window buses. They can be distinguished by part #, and don't live as long as ordinary trans axles.
Next time you find yourself in a one wheel driving and the other not scenario try pulling the parking brake out part way, sometimes this fools the diff into sending power to the other wheel. _________________ I Corinthians 4: 1 thru 5
‘63 ragtop - ‘68 single cab |
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theizzardking Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2008 Posts: 2097 Location: seattle
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:26 am Post subject: |
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how about dropping a np249 tansfercase in there and some dana 40's axels?
a couple of arb's for the front and rear dana's and you should be golden!!!
...just kidding that would be sweet though!!!!
it seems as if you could sort out some sort of lsd kit for it, they're pretty simple and fabing oune to fit the bus shouldn't be too hard.
really i just want in on this thread so i can see if anyone has done this? a syncro baywindow..sweet! _________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
'71 westie "the wanderer" |
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Dogman Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2008 Posts: 109 Location: Boise, ID
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm...I could pull the NP231 and Dana 30/44 that are loaded with ARBs out of my Jeep
Nah, the Jeep is way too fun. _________________ '73 Riviera | 1700cc | Dual Dellorto 34b FRD | 009 |
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WestyPop Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2005 Posts: 1732 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Might want to do some searching over at http://www.shoptalkforums.net/ The section called "The Transaxle Forum" would be the best place to start. The subject of LSDs has come up a lot, and it seems that there are at least a couple of frequent contributors there that actually do the conversions.
Since having LSD in several other vehicles really has helped their winter mobility, I'm also interested for the baywindows; just not ready yet to lay out the cash required to go for it.
Keep us posted.
J.R.
68 Westy
(+ others) |
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Lionhart94010 Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2005 Posts: 1417 Location: SF Bay Area / Silicon Valley / So Cal
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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A Limited Slip Differential would be a nice option to have if one was planning to do some BLM camping :0)
Karl do you know of any LSD option for T2’s? _________________ Current VWs 71 T2 Westy SO-72/6(Miami), 71 Crew Cab, 2015 GSW TDI
Other owned VW’s 59, 68 1500s, 69 & 71 Bug’s; 72 & 73 S-Bug’s; 67 Westy, 67 Deluxe, Other 71 DC, 72 KG GT that now lives in Australia, 12 JSW TDI, 2015 GSW TDI, 2023 Tiguan
VW technical information sights
thesamba - www.ratwell.com - www.shoptalkforums.com/ - www.vw-resource.com - http://www.type2.com/
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/ - www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm |
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rjonas Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2004 Posts: 644 Location: Chandler, AZ
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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WestyPop wrote: |
Might want to do some searching over at http://www.shoptalkforums.net/ The section called "The Transaxle Forum" would be the best place to start. The subject of LSDs has come up a lot, and it seems that there are at least a couple of frequent contributors there that actually do the conversions. |
Thanks WestyPop!
Shop talk forums....who knew? I didn't.
Now I have another great air cooled website to spend whats left of my work days
If it's not too expensive I may stick in a LSD while freshening up my gearbox next spring. Syncro is kind of crunchy into 3rd after streaching out 2nd.
Hopefully more LSD users will pipe in here with real world reports of how the perform and hold up to off roading. _________________ 1979 Type-2 Westfalia “Sandy”
1973 Type-181 Thing "Velma"
1956 Type-1 Beetle Patina Project “Rosie”
www.azbusclub.org |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51121 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Bleysing has a LSD in his bus, PM him.
Your other option is split (dual, not pre 6 parking brakes, stop the spinning wheel. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Oil Phil-M Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2005 Posts: 541 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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These guys seem to have a wide range of parts: http://www.longenterprises.com/
Look under the High Performance Parts and scroll down, you'll eventually see a part listing. I can't see a price list but I'm sure I've seen somewhere that they are around $1000+ I would love to have one but the price is steep for the amount of time it would come into play with the type of driving I do. |
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borninabus Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4536 Location: Arizona Highways
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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you need to call someone out west who does buggies. limited slip is not that uncommon. you need to do some thinking about it though. i'm no tranny expert, but apparently, if you do the wrong thing with the gas pedal during cornering (on asphalt) you can easily roll your bus. the haynes manual has the best description of how the factory limited slip works. _________________ 88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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I just had one put in my 091 by AA transaxle which cost $1200. Its awesome and stops that little mudpuddle stuck action. I went up some steep gravel roads that only 4x4 trucks went up without problems a couple of week ago to find a hiking trailhead. If you are into backcountry a LSD is a must as you can go nearly anywhere with your bus.
My fiance was Ok, lets really find out now if we can get stuck. I was thinking this is really a test and we did it fine.
Darryl at AA sourced it out of Florida, I have forgotten the Mfg's name. Its a high quality unit and a gear LSD not a plate type like the ZF units. I am sure you could order it as a option when buses were new. _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles
Last edited by Bleyseng on Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NASkeet Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 2958 Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: Limited slip / locking differential? |
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Several years ago, I recall reading of the Quaife limited-slip differential, for rear-engined VW transaxles, which was available through Autocavan, in England, but since they ceased trading, I hadn't heard or seen anything more about them.
http://www.quaife.co.uk/
http://www.quaife.co.uk/What-is-a-Quaife-ATB-differential
http://www.quaife.co.uk/Distributors
http://www.quaife.co.uk/USA
Here's a quote from their website:
« The Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential's unique design offers maximum traction, improves handling and steering, and puts the power where it is needed most. A definite advantage, whether on the track or on the street. »
« The Quaife differential is extremely strong and durable, and since it is gear-operated, it has no plates or clutches that can wear out and need costly and regular replacement. There is no maintenance required to the unit, so you can fit and forget. »
« The Quaife differential is great for street driving or racing. Racers don't have to put up with locking mechanisms or spools that tear the steering wheel out of their hands when cornering. Because it behaves like an open differential during ordinary driving, street drivers will have trouble telling it's there until pushing the cars towards its limits. »
Here is the application, for the 1968~79 VW Type 2:
http://www.quaife.co.uk/VW-T2-Van-Combi-37T-spline-ATB-differential
Volkswagen T2 Combi 37T spline Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential
Product code: QDF4R/37
Catalogue Page: 10
Manufacturers: VW
£561.35 (Unit price exc. VAT) _________________ Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net
Last edited by NASkeet on Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:06 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Jeff Geisen Samba Chaplain
Joined: December 21, 2004 Posts: 1881 Location: N.W. Georgia
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:01 am Post subject: |
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... the Haynes late transporter manual has some information on bus trans axles and LSD facts.
Chapter 5 section 9 explains the limited slip (plate type) that was a factory option. On the bottom of page 91 is the normal differential exploded view, the on the next page is the LSD exploded view.
The first page in chapter 5 states a CC identification code for factory LSD, CA normal type diff for up to August 73 and CN normal after August 73. _________________ I Corinthians 4: 1 thru 5
‘63 ragtop - ‘68 single cab |
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Alan Brase Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 4532 Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:31 am Post subject: |
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LSD was an option on bays since at least 1973, possibly earlier. I think most were sold for use on military vehicles and darn few of those ever made it to the US. I don't think I've ever even heard of one for sale, but I've seen the parts in the parts manual. Probably built by ZF ( Zahnrad Fabrik- it means "gear maker" -a German gear and transmission builder), they used plates much like American ones. You might actually find one on German Ebay or possibly with a wanted ad on theSamba.
The Quaife is a modern invention and might work pretty well.
AA Transaxle and many others could help you with that.
Syncros used a manual, vacuum applied locker. I might be possible to put those parts into an 091 case. Maybe, maybe not, because the 091 also has the reverse idler in the final drive section while the 091/1 used in the syncro does not.
Cutting brakes would be the poor man's fix. When the old farmer felt his right wheels start sspinning, he'd just push on the right brake to slow it down and put the power thru to the left. You could do the same with a split hand brake handle. Not all that difficult, but it would be tempting to put the handles down by the seat like a vanagon.
Finally, the very first Syncro, or maybe more properly, the Syncro's grandfather, WAS a bay. It's in the VW museum, I've seen a picture in the Gallery.
Al _________________ Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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rjonas Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2004 Posts: 644 Location: Chandler, AZ
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Limited slip / locking differential? |
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NASkeet wrote: |
Several years ago, I recall reading of the Quaife limited-slip differential, for rear-engined VW transaxles, which was available through Autocavan, in England, but since they ceased trading, I hadn't heard or seen anything more about them.
http://www.quaife.co.uk/
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Wow, that thing is narly. Will start saving my pennys for one.
_________________ 1979 Type-2 Westfalia “Sandy”
1973 Type-181 Thing "Velma"
1956 Type-1 Beetle Patina Project “Rosie”
www.azbusclub.org |
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melville Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2006 Posts: 1245 Location: Just Outside the Redwood Curtain
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jmstu76 Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 1227 Location: Edmond Oklahoma
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:24 am Post subject: |
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I was doing the same research a while back. I found a supplier of LSD for the 091 trans. Its in my monologue thread here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=263768&highlight= _________________ James
'76 Deluxe Sage Green Westy
2258 cc GD case 78mm CW crank, 2.0 H-beam rods 5,325” 22mm pin, JE forged pistons with 15cc dish, JE rings, type 11 clearanced oil pump, CB Eagle 2205 Type-2 “Torque Special” hydraulic cam with matched lifters fed by CB Dual Weber 40 IDF MX with 6” foam air filters, currently 55 idle, 130 main, 200 air correction, 32 mm venturis. 27in General Grabber AT2 All Terrains, Berg Shifter, stock '76 exhaust HPC Ceramic Coated. 11/18/2020 |
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Air_Cooled_Nut Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004 Posts: 3040 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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I have a Peloquin LSD in my '95 Jetta. Wonderful device. Love it! Makes cornering even more fun on the back roads _________________ Toby http://www.aircoolednut.com/
Did I mention that I'm an original Darksider?
'72 VW Squareback, 2007cc, GB 5-speed, rag top; '76 VW Riviera Penthouse Sundowner 2.0L; 2015 Audi S5 Cabby w/Stage II APR; '06 Ducati Sport Classic 1000; '14 Ducati Diavel Strada
The First Invasion |
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NASkeet Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 2958 Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: 1968~79 VW Type 2, Limited Slip Differentials |
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Here are links to recent articles in the Canadian Driver, on-line motoring magazine, about locking differentials and limited-slip differentials, including the Torsen torque-sensing differential, which is or was commonly employed by Audi:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/070912.htm
Jim Kerr & Chris Chase, "Locking differentials", Canadian Driver, 12th September 2007
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/at_010410.htm
Jim Kerr, "Limited Slip Differentials", Canadian Driver, Friday 7th November 2008.
The Torsen differential uses a combination of gears to split the torque between the axles rather than apply clutches. _________________ Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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TRN9 Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2006 Posts: 308 Location: Where its rainy
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Just resurrecting an old thread instead of starting a new one.
Is this true? Will the peloquins LSD work on an 002 tranny? I have an 002 transmission that I am thinking about getting LSD for. _________________ '72 Panel ~ B-Bus
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Camper Special Club Member
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