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identifying an oil leak (pics) (type4 motor)
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rear main seal won't dump the oil all too fast (but fast enough). If you have a galley plug that is starting to work its way out, that will pump all the oil out before you can react. Pretty risky to keep driving it, I would park it until it is fixed.
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Input shaft seal if it's gear oil

Rear main/ leak at case halfs or even a case bung leaking behind flywheel. I always centre punch around bungs to stop them from falling out then devcon(2 part epoxy resin) them up just be shure of no leaks.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully it's just a rear main seal, and not like, say, an oil gallery plug. Those usually just blow out entirely though which will cause a major bad leak (like, all your oil in a couple minutes)
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

probably a rear main seal but I had a 71 type 1 bus case crack in the back once that cause it, and another time the flywheel shims wore out (holes too large) and they worked on the crank until they cut through to the dowel pins. The oil was leaking out the dowell pins.

You might try touching your finger to the oil and run it together with your thumb to see if it feels like engine oil or really thick like trans fluid. Trans fluid also smells different.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my engine oil level is going down when this happens, so im pretty sure it isn't transmission fluid. (or it's both)

time to order a Viton Crankshaft Seal it looks like
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so ive been reading up on this process and what everyone thinks about what to do and how...

I stopped by a few local shops (as my regular one I just can't trust anymore) and they both seemed to think that you pull the trans and leave the motor in place for this job - is that something that is just easier for a shop because they are more well equipped with the tools that would make that simpler, where its easier for us home DIY guys to pull the motor instead?

im just about ready to go buy an ATV jack to aid in this process, but want to be sure im not buying tools I dont need or going about the 'how' wrong.

the second dude I spoke with also mentioned that if it is an oil leak and if it got on the clutch the clutch could be shot, does that sound right ?

FYI, I was quoted 3 hours at one shop and 4 at the other, both charging $80+ an hour...
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never heard of anyone pulling only the tranny from a Bay window bus. Vanagon yes, bus no. It could be done, but you would have to almost pull the engine anyway to accomplish it.

An engine pull is easy, an hour or two out and twice that to go back in.

If you have gotten oil on the clutch disc you will want to either clean it or replace it. If there is any wear at all replacement is the only way to go. Also do the pilot bearing while you are in there, unless you are absolutely sure yours is perfect.
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For that kind of money, you could certainly do it yoruself.

I would suggest following the ratwell engine pull guide. Print it up and take notes on it....

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/EngineRemoval.html

It is really easy to nick a seal duing the install. Boston Bob had this little 3 sided spokeshave for metal and de-burred the sharpness of the case.

Been here (scroll down to 6 or so) http://www.relitech.com/clutch.htm

While there you need to check the crankshaft endplay and would probably be well served to tap those galley plugs. A little more work but the goal here is no leakage,

Jake has a nice write up here http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/showthread.php?t=72
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the tips...

mine IS a vanagon, aircooled of course, but van not a bus.
does that mean pulling just the trans for the do it yourselfer?

i do still feel that I want to do this myself, so I can get that first motor pull out of the way and stop worrying about the process going forward

ben from CA that does the suby swaps has a great article also on pulling the ac vanagon motor for replacement that I also plan to reference...
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

airkooledchris wrote:
mine IS a vanagon, aircooled of course, but van not a bus. does that mean pulling just the trans for the do it yourselfer?


On a water cooled pulling just the tranny is easy enough, I would presume the same would hold true for an air cooled. Is there any reason you might want to have your engine on the ground? Probably not too much advantage one way or another on how long it takes.
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obieoberstar
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pulling the Vanagon transmission is a lot easier than pulling the engine. just gonna have to support the rear of the engine during the removal.

don't think anyone mentioned the camshaft plug in the case.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=343379

I started a new thread with updated images. I was able to get the van up on ramps and pull some of the tinware out of the way. im trying to identify any other possible oil leak sources that I can address while I have this thing all torn apart (likely this weekend)
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Marv [UK]
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

airkooledchris wrote:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=343379

I started a new thread with updated images. I was able to get the van up on ramps and pull some of the tinware out of the way. im trying to identify any other possible oil leak sources that I can address while I have this thing all torn apart (likely this weekend)


get some pushrod tubes and seals anyway, they're cheap enough and do them while you're at it if any are leaking..

Smell the oil, if it smells like a pig farm it's transmission fluid.

It's not easy to change the input shaft seal while the trans is still in but it is doable with the engine out. you need to take the bellhousing off to do it so need a gearbox gasket kit too. And a torque wrench and a load of gear oil as you have to dump the oil out of the trans first. (make sure you take the fill plug out before you take the dump plug out just in case it won't come loose Wink)

my advice...

Drop the engine and change the flywheel oil seal and O ring if it's got one

change the pushrod seals if it's got any leaks. While the head is off, Lap the valves and decoke a bit and give your heads a good once over inspection

take out gearbox oil fill plug. Breath sigh of relief if it comes out, then dump the gear oil into a suitable container.

Take off thrust bearing, then cluth operating shaft, then bellhousing and renew your input shaft seal. replace bellhousing gasket and refit bellhousing

refit engine

cross fingers and start her up Smile
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Marv [UK]
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh yeah, forgot to refill transmission with SAE90 gear oil d'oh!
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless there is something wrong with the oil slinger, there is no reason to pull the bellhousing off of the tranny to change the input shaft seal. Using the right technique you can pull it very easily with the transmission assembled and in place.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

old thread!

trans is back in, no new leaks (yet) !
woohoo

In the end I only changed the main rear seal and the flywheel 0-ring (I couldn't figure out where that felt o-ring was supposed to go) and this seems to have done the trick.

ive driven it to where the oil was hot, but not where it was at it's max temp, so im not completely out of the woods yet, but hopefully.
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