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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12006
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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 Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:18 pm Post subject: Free "SPOT" Personal Locator Beacon(PLB) |
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I heard of a deal on the SPOT unit where they will give you the unit if you sign up for service. The spot unit itself costs about $175 so it seems like a great deal. http://www.findmespot.com/robby/ The spot unit can alert 911, send a signal to others that you need help and check in. Just wanted to pass on a deal. BTW. I googled spot and went through the main website and confirmed that it is a legit deal.
Last edited by syncrodoka on Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:55 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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mrhooie
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2007
Posts: 51
Location: Yellowknife, NT
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Spot is a heck of a product.
Not only will it track where you are, it will allow you to send a signal via satellite that is relayed to 5 email addresses.
Nice if you're on the road and wanted to let the family know you're ok
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85 Westy 1.9l h2o - the Winder mk II |
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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Volksbulli
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Big Brother is watching you. 
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It's a Volkswagen Thing, Even I Don't Understand!(o\|/o)
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82' A/C Westfalia
67' Typ 1
96' Golf GL |
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mrhooie
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2007
Posts: 51
Location: Yellowknife, NT
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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wow that's too bad. i know a few people who have it here in Yellowknife and I have used the tracking program myself and found it useful.
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85 Westy 1.9l h2o - the Winder mk II |
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McVanagon
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern part of the Virginia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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No wonder my wife always knows exactly where I am.......All this time I thought I was just predictable.
_________________
'69 Mike
'85 GL
'87 Wolfsburg Hardtop |
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climberjohn
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2005
Posts: 1840
Location: Portland Orygun
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Wowzer.
Those negative reviews on Amazon are right on the Spot. (pun intended).
Such harsh words from people who know their stuff, like a Coast Guard SAR person, make me never want to try one.
_________________
'86 Westy, 2.5 Subaru power
Know your limits. Exceed them often. |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:40 am Post subject: |
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I use an ARC Aquafix (gps chip onboard) PLB. About $500...
(in addition to a ship's larger EPIRB by the same manufacturer which runs about $1000)
An ARC ResQfix is preferred by many on land (backcountry)
These units are registered thru NOAA and the line of emergency beacon transmission and subsequent comunication to local SAR / Coast Guard is proven reliable.
If its your life you're betting on..
Spend wisely. |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10078
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:41 am Post subject: |
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I bet my life on my wits and my ability to read a map.
Get lost!
It's fun!
_________________
Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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jkeller
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2007
Posts: 123
Location: Medford, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: |
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My mom bought me one because she is always worried about me being out in the wild on my own. It takes a long time, 15-20 minutes, from when you push the "ok" button to when the unit confirms the message was sent. If you turn it off before the two lights blink together, the message won't send.
Like most GPS you also have to have a clear view of the sky, which can be hard to find up here in the NW woods. I leave it in the middle of the road while I eat lunch and it usually sends the message by the time I am ready to go again.
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1985 Weekender, Auto Trans. |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| tencentlife wrote: |
I bet my life on my wits and my ability to read a map.
Get lost!
It's fun! |
Which is all good until a life-threatening injury occurs.
In Solo Transpac 2004, 3 boats dropped out in the first couple days due to extroadinary weather, (nearing gale conditions).
Two of those three boats made it back to the Cali shore on thier own wits... never flipped the beacon on. One of those skippers did contact Coast Guard as they neared a port to communicate status.
Coast Guard stood by.. though they were chomping at the bit to get some "practice".. so they motored out to meet the sailboat about 25 miles from port, anyway.
The third sailor began having difficulty keeping his diabetes medicine down due to seasickness... He flipped on his EPIRB (beacon).. and was "rescued". In many opinions he was a bit premature in his decision. But one must respect his decision, none-the-less.
If it was not a life-threatening situation... it might have quickly become one and had he gone into a diabetic coma, he'd have not had the ability to flip on his beacon.
(Latitude 38, a west coats sailing magazine covered the race in some detail. The "facts" are verifiable.)
A PLB is for signaling for rescue in a life-threatening situation when most ALL other options are exhausted.
These are not gee-whiz gadgets.. not at all like dashboard GPS, iPhones, or laptop computer navigation systems.
These are emergency locators for when one's life is at grave risk.
Disabled at sea.
Backcountry avalanche.
Fallen in a crevasse..
..that type of thing.
And its this distinction that I think SPOT is dangerously clouding for the typical adventurer.
I can think of only two occasions in my 25+ yrs of offshore sailing when I would have had my thumb at the ready on an EPIRB.. One of those was prior to the existence of civilian 406... so the debate was moot.
In neither case, would I have flipped the switch until things deteriorated even more.
But how bad was it?
In one of those cases, it was blowing 35knots sustained with long gusts over 50, seas were 14' swell with 9' wind waves - stacking to 23' plus (NOAA recorded data).. well offshore.
Waves were breaking... solid walls of whitewater 8' and taller. Some waves even appeared to break like on shore. (observation)
I was in a 27' boat with two less-experienced sailors than me..
From the deck of that small boat waves appeared to be as tall as 2/3rds my mast hieght. Based on the bouy data I researched later.. measured was close to observation.
But god damned if it didn't look and feel worse when in it.
We had multiple knock downs.. at one point I was washed over but luckily was well tethered to the boat. My god-damned auto inflate vest went off.. leaving me to wear a foamie the rest of the difficulte sail in (about 20 hrs)
We knew where we were. GPS helped... Not simply a matter of being "lost".
It would have been injury or hull failure that would have prompted the consideration to request aid via beacon, (we were beyond VHF and had no SSB)
(We road it out... and it was a life-changing experience)
99.9% of us don't need to carry them.. but for the 0.1% who do.. We need to make a decision.
Is it worth the risk to experience the challenge.. or should we pass on the experience because the risk (and cost) is too great.
I know more than a handful of my competitors have made solemn oaths that if they are ever in that life threatening situation, they will "go down with the ship" rather than call CG for a rescue.
That is a philosophical/ideological position.. and it is an oath that is somewhat hollow until tested (IMHO).
I am required by rules to have an 406 EPIRB.. I am not required to carry the somewhat redundant PLB.. But I invested in one last year and carry it on my person when sailing.
This has been my decision based on implied risk.
I have two small children at home. They need thier father. But thier father has not gotten all of his solo offshore sailing out of his system.
That has been my personal decision thus far.. I have decided that my risk is sufficiently low, and the odds of needing my PLB (which would require that I have been seperated form my boat or the ship's EPIRB is not functioning) such that I do not feel I am a burden on CG/SAR and society on the whole.
But if the unimaginaeble happens.. if I am seperated from my boat.. I will not hesitate to flip on that beacon.
$500 is a pittance when faced with the alternative... Dying in open, cold, and shark-infested waters would be a miserable way to go.
I do not participate in land-based activities that would require use of a PLB. (not anymore, at least)
I would not carry mine for camping in the Westy... or for backpacking trips.
But if I was a backcountry skier.. a backcountry climber.. or similar.. I might consider it.
I would take a pass on SPOT (regardless any "free" offers) and trust in a NOAA registered 406 type beacons.
Not cheap.. but proven to work.
I recognize your post was intended to be somehwat "light" in tone.
But these matters of beacons and rescue are not to be taken lightly.
Cheers to you 10cent.
Last edited by j_dirge on Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10078
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Uh, whatever.
_________________
Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| tencentlife wrote: |
| Uh, whatever. |
you replied somewhat flippantly to a subject that is taken quite seriously by a great number of aventurers and the SAR groups tasked with watching out of them.
There is a very real cost in public dollars to the services provided by SAR.
And it is very important for anyone considering something like a PLB, to understand what personal responsibilities are associated with carrying such a unit.
It is equally important to understand the limitations of some units when it comes to actual rescue.
It is not a simple matter of getting lost for fun and finding your way home.
I respect your posts.
From your reply it does not appear you respect mine. |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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one of Amazon's reviews:
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As someone with Coast Guard Search and Rescue experience who is very familiar with SPOT, (also an AT and PCT alum) I wanted to add my review from the perspective of someone who has responded to distress beacons. I first learned about SPOT with an open mind, but have since found many reasons to dissuade mariners and others from using the device. I can't stress strongly enough the need to go with a 406 MHz beacon, such as an EPIRB / ELT / or PLB as the distress-alerting device of choice. As a reference, I'll point to SPOT's own web site.
Unfortunately, it is full of half-truths and other misleading information.
Below, I've included a transcript of their online video about its "Alert 911" function.
A point-by-point discussion/rebuttal:
Claim: "Every year, emergency authorities conduct 50,000 rescue missions. Many of these people are not found in time. Now there's a way to make sure that they are: the SPOT messenger is the first and only product that combines GPS technology with Satellite-based communication..."
Response: FALSE! Such technology has been available for many years: SARSAT-based 406 MHz EPIRBs / ELTs / PLBs. When synced with a GPS, they embed and transmit their coordinates to a satellite, giving the Coast Guard (and for inland positions, the Air Force) an immediate "E" (electronic) solution where they can send boats / aircraft / search teams.
Claim: "Whether you are snowmobiling, hiking or sailing, it is your personal connection to loved ones and emergency authorities, with the simple push of a button, from virtually anywhere, worldwide..."
Response: Not always true. You CANNOT depend on it! In Seattle, the Coast Guard had a case in September where a boater's loved ones hadn't received their scheduled "I'm OK" update from the vessel as expected. Suddenly it became a case of an overdue vessel. Turns out the boater had hit the button on the device, but the message was not transmitted. The CG called SPOT and learned that the company was having difficulty receiving transmissions from multiple vessels. Of course neither the sender nor their recipients was notified of this. CG units from Seattle to California were involved in this case. Something similar could happen inland.
Claim: "Over 50% of the US does not have cell phone coverage. With SPOT you're covered..."
Response: Um, not always (see above). Also, with any 406 MHz beacon, you're covered, as well. Without the yearly fee and extra fees for bells and whistles.
Claim: "Today, SPOT is saving lives all over the world." (Provides several anecdotes.)
Response: Certainly it has played an important role in certain cases. But show me one where SPOT worked and a 406 MHz EPIRB / ELT / PLB would not have.
Claim: (Case study - the Bertsches) So the wife receives an email stating plainly "This is an emergency. Please send help." Followed by a lat/long.
Response: So this is not to be confused with the message sent when you hit the "HELP" button, which reads: "This is an HELP message. Please find my location in this message below and send for help ASAP." Confusing?
Claim: The wife then says she received a SPOT message saying "I am OK." and was very relieved.
Response: What if she had been away from her computer this whole time? Had she seriously not yet been contacted by authorities? In the case of a 406 MHz alert, the Rescue Coordination Center that receives the alert puts a live person on the phone with the family member / emergency contact as part of prosecuting the case.
Claim: "If your loved one is going into the outdoors, you need SPOT..."
Response: No you don't. It's a false sense of security.
While SPOT's a neat tekkie tool for tracking someone's location in the wilderness or at sea, it should NOT replace a 406 EPIRB / ELT / PLB for emergencies.
It also lacks the 121.5 MHz homing signal that all 406s have, with homing equipment already installed on all Coast Guard aircraft. CG boats, civilian air and ground SAR and civil air patrol assets also have this equipment. The CG also has 406 MHz direction-finding equipment installed on many of its aircraft, as well, which can lock in on a signal from over 100 miles away. SPOT has no such advantage, as responding agencies have no way to detect its signal with their aircraft, boats, or ground teams.
SPOT's business model is clearly based on the continued profits generated by its subscription services, and is aligned with the GEOS company, which is in this business for profit (nothing wrong with that).
Contrast that with SARSAT (406 MHz) beacons, which exist to execute the federal mission of inland and maritime SAR. While beacon manufacturers like ACR and McMurdo look to make a profit, they have to adhere to strict federal (and international) standards to market their devices as SARSAT EPIRBS / ELTs / PLBs. The government (NASA / NOAA) funds and maintains the satellites (which are being significantly upgraded again in the next decade), and the Air Force and Coast Guard executes all SAR in the US and our territorial waters (and often beyond).
Another advantage of SARSAT (406 MHz) beacons - NOAA tracks all false alarms, follows up on their causes, and works directly with their manufacturers to minimize their reoccurrence.
And one additional reason the video on SPOT's site leaves me scratching my head: it uses footage of Coast Guard assets that were retired before SPOT was even on the market (44' motor lifeboat / CG HH-65A helicopter [illustrating a case off of AUSTRALIA, and the CG now uses C models with a different paint job]).
My one-star review is specific to its use as a distress beacon. As a fun way to track a friend or loved one via google maps, it's a neat gadget (so long as folks know not to panic if you miss a check-in, since their technology is unreliable). Just make sure you carry a 406 in case you get in real trouble |
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HeftySmurf
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2008
Posts: 879
Location: Washington, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Dont even get me started on this one.... Do you really want your where abouts known at all times? Thats why I bough a Syncro..... sheesh
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-Lorenzo
90 GL w/ Bostig |
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iltis74
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2003
Posts: 826
Location: Anchorage, AK
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| Wow, what a crazy thread. I suppose that there are instances where you just need to push a button and have help find you. If you're driving around in a Vanagon outside cell reception and feel the need for contact, bring a satellite phone. You can rent one. It comes with all the convenience of being able to talk to someone. From anywhere. |
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:14 am Post subject: |
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OK, here is a scenario
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=344013
> A long afternoon and a painful towing bill.
A Syncro goes offroad by itself, and slides off the side of the road. There is snow on the ground, spending the night could be dangerously cold, and does nothing to improve your ability to communicate that you need help, nor where you need help. Assume you have NO cell phone reception, the vehicle is stranded, but you are not injured.
Options include.
1. Tell someone you trust that you are going "out of bounds" and will check in by a specific time. Failure to check in, means you need help.
2. Bring a self recovery kit including a hand winch, and cold weather clothing.
3. Walk or bike out to find help recovering your vehicle, but bikes dont work in snow.
4. Rent a satelite phone. Call for help.
5. Install a GPS tracker on your vehicle, so your wife can tell where you are. With a predetermined agreement that if you fail to reach a specified destination by a specified time, you are in need of rescue. You could also pre-agree that if you use your GPS tracker to produce a certain travel pattern, such as 2 full circles to the left, you are doing the "send help" dance.
6. Use a SPOT to send a message to your wife.
7. Use a Personal Locator Beacon to trigger a full on Search and Rescue, including associated helicopter rescue costs.
8. Hike to a location where you get cell reception, and call a tow truck.
I invite us all to brainstorm the pros and cons of these options.
Personally, I carry a hand winch, but I also come prepared with warm clothing and I keep track of my distance away from the pavement, and keep track of the time it would take me to walk out that distance, and the time of day it would be by the time I finish walking out.
I think renting a Satelite phone is one of the most cost effective options, if we have the foresight to bring one.
Jonathan |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
OK, here is a scenario
1. Tell someone you trust that you are going "out of bounds" and will check in by a specific time. Failure to check in, means you need help.
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Absolutely!
Pilots call them flight plans
Sailors call them float plans..
Anyone venturing beyond easy communication should "file" a plan with a trusted friend or family member.
Plan should include at a minimum
1. time of departure
2. destination and route
3. planned time of return
4. time period and clear instructions on when and how "authorities" should be notified.
(keep in mind these trusted friends and family do not necessarily understand the nuances of your adventuring... provide them detail on how to react if the doo-doo hits the fan)
Does anyone remember the family that took a "back-road" in Oregon a year or two ago on a driving vacation?
Took a wrong turn.. caught in a snow storm... road is not plowed..
Dad died when trying to walk out for help after staying with the car for a day or two?..
The search exhausted local SAR.
Fortunately, the wife and kids were found alive. |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10078
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| j_dirge wrote: |
| tencentlife wrote: |
| Uh, whatever. |
you replied somewhat flippantly......
I respect your posts.
From your reply it does not appear you respect mine. |
Sure I do, rather highly in fact, when I actually read them, but I wasn't interested enough to read that one, hence, "whatever". I wouldn't have said anything if you hadn't made a reply expected by calling out my comment, made in light jest ( I think that was pretty clear), as a prompt for you to tell your story. I suspect you wanted to tell it anyway, so I wish you had just said what you wanted to say and left me out of it.
But now I'm the one who has to make nice. Oh dear.
Here's me making nice:
Uh......sure...OK.
_________________
Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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GBA 88West LA
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1279
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:48 am Post subject: |
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 can u feel the love?
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88 Westy GL Vanaru 07 2.5 EJ25/AA Trans/oiling plates, 1.14 3rd-.77-4th..solar powered cabin |
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