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Rear springs question
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240Gordy
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Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 2348
Location: Vancouver, BC
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:

Gordy--get rid of the twist in rear spring spacer's, the JC Whitney load leveler's, and get a decent suspension set up in the ass end of your ride.


It ain't right.


what are you talking about Terry? I posted pics of various solutions, it is up to the readers to evaluate, go to the links provided, and make up their own minds. Your input is welcome, but in this case I don't know which particular example you are refering to that is twisted.
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"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR
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Terry Kay
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Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<<And ride height was not the problem *I* was trying to address with my van and Monroe coil-overs.. Load capacity (and yes load placement) and handling was what I was trying to address..>>

Why are you trying to address worn out spring's with a band aid?

This was the basis of my retort , and my point a few times.

If your trying to get the vehicle to handle on the road right, as well as being able to handle the load your hauling--get a set of new springs on the back end of it first.
Then add the shocks to match the job.

<<I do NOT recommend YOUR $80 solution because I DO have the time in on them and they failed.>>

So did one of mine--once in--I don't know--maybe 5-6-7 years.
And I have them in two Vans.

Work alright for me, and a bunch of other's.

But we are not you, and this is your Van--so do what ya gotta do.

However, I still think that supplimenting your worn out springs with a set of shocks isn't the correct answer.

<< I did not install them on YOUR recommendation>>

Amen to that---

<< (I had not visited Samba much at that time).. I installed them on a personal friend's recommendation and after seeing the result and two failed bags in 1 yrs time, we were both left unimpressed with them.>>

Ok so he's in the dog house--better him than me.

<<Quite frankly your posts sound arrogant AND ignorant of the MANY re-engineered solutions on MANY vehicles out there done by MANY different people. (professional and not, licensed and not)>>

Glad you feel that way--

I got your attention.

<<I highly doubt your vans (of which it sounds.. you have many) are all strictly stock vans following manufacturers "engineered spec" to the T. Like.. for example.. your TIICO swap.. >>

Not MINE---
I bought it that way, at a figure I couldn't refuse.
OH---

FYI----
VW in SA delivered/ sold the inline engines swaps--your flat 4 was a failure down in SA--and VW didn't use it no mor'
It was a VW udate--so nupe--it follows the manufacture's spec's to a "T"

<<Nope.. Not manufacturer spec, there.>>

FYI---
Yep--to VW specs there & here, and wherever they were made available.

<<<Quite frankly your posts sound arrogant AND ignorant of the MANY re-engineered solutions on MANY vehicles out there done by MANY different people.>>>

Good--I got your attention again.

Re-engineered or a job jipped?
If you said--" I'm going to replace my 20 some year old spring's, and because of the ungodly heavy loads I carry, and the road race quality feel I want in the Van, I'm going to also add some sort of McPherson coil over's in the back--maybe the front"

Nupe--

Your blowing the springs off--and trying to get more out of a dead issue, by tossing a pair of shocks on the Van.

This is arrogant?
Maybe in your eye's.

And if the truth is arrogant , so be it.
Take it anyway you want.

<<I'd also recomment that if you ever expect to sell me something, you not be so god-damned condescending.. because, quite frankly.. you sound like a real ass.>>

Thank you again--
And I honestly hope that day never comes.
I suggested several different ways way of approaching this situation.
Most all were a better way than just replacing shocks--no
springs.

I'll have to say most competitant shops would do the same, so they too would be on your arrogant list hall of fame.

I sure don't want to be the wailing wall when you become unhappy with something, somewhere a year or two from whenever--

Nupe--
won't happen.

Just for grins--

If you already have the "right way" of getting this suspension update all wrapped up tight, what in the heck are you doing here asking?

Can't figure that one out.
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j_dirge
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Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4614
Location: El Cerrito, CA
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry,

As someone else so elequently put it..

"Uh.. whatever."


<shaking my head>
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snoop
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Joined: June 22, 2007
Posts: 301
Location: SW Oregon
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If one is concerned about the strength of the mounting bracket on the swingarm not being sufficient for the loads presented by coilover shocks then one can utilize something like this to allay that concern:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Note that they're welded to the factory mounting bracket, not out of concern for the factory bracket's strength being sufficient for the loads presented by the coilover shock...I used the coilovers for 10K+ mostly hard miles before adding the mounting brackets and the factory brackets had no signs of fatigue...they're welded to eliminate an unnecessary pivot point...their utility in my application is to optimize the shock's travel to it's mounting geometry...and allow me to avoid the purchase of a longer travel coilover (#58636 specifically).

I very much like the Monroe coilovers...big props to riceye for trailblazing the rear application and suggesting a path for the front application (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=105142&highlight=gabriel+sensatrac...9th post)...I went to slightly different models than suggested for both applications but was supporting a taller than typical suspension installation:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

19" on all corners...GW 1.5" lift progressive springs, Monroe Sensa-Trac Load Adjusting Shocks model#58253 front and #58633 rear, custom rear lower shock mounting brackets, front shock upper seating rings and spring cap spacers front and rear.
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joetiger Premium Member
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Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 4019
Location: denver
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes!

I finally started a thread that took on a life of its own.

As for my situation, I tripped over a cat and grabbed the stack on a wood-burning stove week before last, rendering my right hand useless with 3rd degree burns.

So, I haven't done my spacers or swapped out springs yet. I'll report back when I can turn a wrench again...
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SteveVanB
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW. For you guys lookin' for a cheap solution, old Cadillacs (80's?)with the rear air suspension had nice little compressors under the hoods. It would be nothin' to plumb your bags with a guage and a pressure switch of some sort.If I remember correctly they were good for @90 psi.They are really compact and quite durable. Any bone yard should have a few to choose from.
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presslab
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Joined: September 29, 2008
Posts: 1730
Location: Sonoma County
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A while ago I picked up a tank and compressor from a Subaru; the same model as my air suspension equipped Subaru in my sig line. The Soob has auto leveling, height adjustable suspension, and it was the inspiration for my Vanagon rear bags.

I haven't decided if I should keep it as a spare for the Soob or install it in the van. Unfortunately I haven't been riding the dirt bike since the knee surgery so it hasn't bothered me as I haven't needed to touch the air bag pressure.
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