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hpw Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2006 Posts: 3010 Location: memphis
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject: To brace or not to brace....that is the question |
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Icy wrote: |
Guys in the Ghia forum get too whacky when it comes to pulling a body. They're too anal about reinforcement, bracing, and all that. |
I'm glad you raised this point up as I was contemplating not bracing
my convertible before I raised the body. I have found very little rust, still
have the original pans and they have some pitting but no rust through.
With that said do you or anyone else "think" that I even need to brace my
body? I have seen numerous pictures of convertibles separated from the
pan with no bracing and no ill affect. Right now all the bolts are out and
all I have to do is build the 4x4 frame that I'm sure everyone has seen
posted here. The reason I'm separating the body/pan is so that I can treat
what rust is there before it does turn into a problem.
So is there a way to determine when to brace and when not to? It sure
would make things easier if I didn't have to. And just a taste of how little
rust there is this is behind the passenger mud sill.
[img][/img] _________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SLIzSCt_cg&list=FLIX26sGa8__1F1loczLPTtg&index=2 |
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Gary Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002 Posts: 17069 Location: 127.0.0.1
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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This car had solid rockers with a couple of minor rust spots. Nothing serious; however, the floors were gone. I separated the body from the pan and it didn't flex an inch.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=79493
_________________ West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
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gregmporter Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2008 Posts: 531 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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If you aren't going to brace, I suggest keeping the doors on and shut. The body will only be able to flex about 1/8" that way (assuming your rockers are solid _________________ You Tube Channel w/vids of the car's progress
http://www.youtube.com/user/gregmporter
1974 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet
1964 356C Coupe (in progress) |
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Gary Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002 Posts: 17069 Location: 127.0.0.1
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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gregmporter wrote: |
If you aren't going to brace, I suggest keeping the doors on and shut. The body will only be able to flex about 1/8" that way (assuming your rockers are solid |
Even if it does flex, which it won't, that 1/8 won't even be permanent. Those bodies are stronger than you think. Remember, there's a reinforcement channel running down the rockers. Ever seen the pics of what they looked like on the assembly line? No doors, plus the doors are going to add a lot of weight. _________________ West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
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sputnick60 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 22, 2007 Posts: 3907 Location: In Molinya Orbit
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:05 am Post subject: |
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Icy wrote: |
gregmporter wrote: |
If you aren't going to brace, I suggest keeping the doors on and shut. The body will only be able to flex about 1/8" that way (assuming your rockers are solid |
Even if it does flex, which it won't, that 1/8 won't even be permanent. Those bodies are stronger than you think. Remember, there's a reinforcement channel running down the rockers. Ever seen the pics of what they looked like on the assembly line? No doors, plus the doors are going to add a lot of weight. |
I agree with Icy. The only reason one would use braces is if the rockers were completely rusted through and therefore totally without structural integrity. If the case is the rockers are being completely removed, then it stands to reason bracing would help keep the front and rear section static. If not then why bother with the extra effort....unless of course you are having fun with the welder and drop-saw.
Nicholas _________________ '66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Gary Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002 Posts: 17069 Location: 127.0.0.1
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Check out this thread and we'll explore why bracing isn't that critical all the time. _________________ West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
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Lair Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2009 Posts: 859 Location: The Monkey Ranch
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:08 am Post subject: |
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That was how we determined if it was a good car or not. If the body didn't fold up when we took it off the pan, it was a keeper. |
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Bart Dunn Samba Consiglieri
Joined: May 09, 2004 Posts: 2354 Location: Sea level (Mid Atlantic)
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 9:56 am Post subject: |
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In reference to the thread Icy referenced above, I saw this method several years ago poking around on BBT's website. I didn't know if they had some kind of jig or something, but thought it was interesting. Now that someone is documenting how they're doing this on that thread, I'm interested to see how it turns out. Here's some pic's from BBT's website, and they even did this to a 1950 split cabriolet .
I would think it's important to put the top on and latch everything up before doing final welds, as one of these pictures shows. Otherwise, it might be a hell of a disappointment after paint is all done to not be able to put up the top.
[/img] _________________ Not enough car seats fit into my:
'58 Beetle convertible
'58 Beetle sedan |
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Lair Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2009 Posts: 859 Location: The Monkey Ranch
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Bart Dunn wrote: |
I would think it's important to put the top on and latch everything up before doing final welds, as one of these pictures shows. Otherwise, it might be a hell of a disappointment after paint is all done to not be able to put up the top.
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Absolutely. One of my friends picked up a nice, straight convertible project a couple of months ago, and got a nice surprise when he hung the doors. The top of the door gap is an inch wide. The PO paid some non-VW type to replace the floor pans, and the guy welded in sheetmetal patches instead of using OEM-style pans. He did a nice job (even got the angle right on the seat rails) but he failed to check the door gaps.
I'll see if I can get some pics. |
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hpw Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2006 Posts: 3010 Location: memphis
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slafa Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2008 Posts: 944 Location: Where getting a real beer is like winning the lotto
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Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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Just took the body off my car this week, obviously there are no CV rocker supports as this is a coupe with the top removed. I told the guy who pulled it off to make sure the doors were on and shut because the roll bar which had provided some support was gone.
I walked in at this point (pic) and kinda freaked because the driver door was ajar (the latch is messed up and has to be massaged to get it to latch). There is a lot of rust in this car but even with all that the body stayed really solid with minimal flex (believe me I was watching closely as I figured I was about to have two clips instead of one car).
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hpw Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2006 Posts: 3010 Location: memphis
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