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caslor Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2006 Posts: 387 Location: Hellas - Greece
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:03 am Post subject: crankshaft dimensions |
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ok here is one question that i want to made, as i dont know-find the correct meaning of the word '' lapped ''
i have measure an old crankshaft i had in order to use it in my low cost 1600cc engine.
in my bentley manual says that the dimensions i take with my micrometer is in the 1st undersize and are in in lapped chart.
i wish i could use the crankshaft without machine work as this would reduce the cost.
lapped = the final measure before need undersize
or
lapped = need undersize when you reach this measure
(again sorry for my english ) |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20380 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: |
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My calculations seem to indicate your crank has been reground .010th (.254mm) undersize on main and rod bearings....
Standard rod journals are 2.1644 to 2.1653 (54.98 to 55.00)
Standard mains 1 through 3, 2.1640 to 2.1648 ( 54.97 to 54.99)
Standard main #4, 1.5739 to 1.5748 ( 39.98 to 40.00)
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Nater Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006 Posts: 493
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Compliments of Lazy8Parts:
1200cc-1600cc Crankshaft & Bearing Information (May 1960 On)
Std. Rod Journal = 2.164"
The Crankshaft Main Bearing Journal closest to the Flywheel is Journal # 1 and is the Thrust Bearing.
Std. Main Journals # 1, # 2, & # 3 = 2.164"
Std. Main Journal # 4 = 1.574"
Journal Bearings # 1 & 4 are one piece and install on the Crankshaft
Journal Bearings # 2 & 3 are two piece and install in the case halves
To determine if a 1200cc/1600cc case has been align bored, measure the outside diameter of the rear main bearing shell:
If the case is Std. The dia = 2.559"
If the case has been bored + .020" The dia = 2.579"
If the case has been bored + .040" The dia = 2.599"
If the case has been bored + .060" The dia = 2.619"
If the case has been bored + .080" The dia = 2.639"
If you don’t have the one piece Rear Main Bearing Shell, you can measure the thickness of one of the # 2 or # 3 Main bearing Halves.
(To use this method, you have to know if the Crankshaft the bearing came from is: Std., .010", .020", etc. & adjust the following dimensions accordingly).
If the Crankshaft is Std. The thickness of the # 2 or # 3
Bearing shell Half in a Standard Case = .2065"
If the case has been bored + .020" The Shell measures .2075"
If the case has been bored + .040" The Shell measures .2085"
If the case has been bored + .060" The Shell measures .2095"
If the case has been bored + .080" The Shell measures .2105"
To determine if a 1200cc/1600cc case thrust has been cut, measure the width of the Case Rear Main Bearing Saddle:
If the Thrust Bearing is Std. The Width = 0.8655"
If the Thrust Bearing is - .040" The Width = 0.8255"
If the Thrust Bearing is - .080" The Width = 0.7855"
If you are trying to determine what oversize bearings to get for a crankshaft and don't have immediate access to the case, but have the old crankshaft complete with bearings, you can easily determine if a 1200cc/1600cc case thrust has been cut, by measuring the Thickness of the "Outer" Rear Main Bearing Thrust Flange:
If the thrust is Std.
The Outer Rear Thrust Flange thickness is 0.0965"
If the thrust has been cut to -.040"
The Outer Rear Thrust Flange thickness is 0.1365"
If the thrust has been cut to -.080"
The Outer Rear Thrust Flange thickness is 0.1765" |
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caslor Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2006 Posts: 387 Location: Hellas - Greece
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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my question is if i can use the crankshaft with the dimension i measure with new bearing sets without grinding ...
i know that my crankshaft is in the first undersize and has 2 more...
also i know that my engine case has no more undersize left.... is in the forth undersize...
the word ''lapped'' in the chart above is the maximum wear that the crankshaft should have before regrinding again to the next undersize level ???
if someone could explain me the word '' lapped '' ....
thanks |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20380 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Got "Plastigage"?
Specs are pretty good.... Plastigage and trial assembly will be final judge on if things are "good"...
http://engineparts.com/motorhead/techstuff/brgclear.html
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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caslor Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2006 Posts: 387 Location: Hellas - Greece
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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yes i have bought on ebay before some months 3 package of green plastigage
i couldn find no one here in my country to sell them..
- so i can test with plastigage the rod bearings and the one main bearing (the other cant be test with plastigage as are in one shape ... right? )
-as far as i know a measure of 002'' is the best .. right?
-anything more or less will be bad right?
the main bearings and rod bearings will be new (forget to tell that sorry )
thanks and for the link |
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1432 Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2006 Posts: 399 Location: so cal
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Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Nater,
these numbers can't be right, is this the way they are written in your manual?
if the Crankshaft is Std. The thickness of the # 2 or # 3
Bearing shell Half in a Standard Case = .2065"
If the case has been bored + .020" The Shell measures .2075"
If the case has been bored + .040" The Shell measures .2085"
If the case has been bored + .060" The Shell measures .2095"
If the case has been bored + .080" The Shell measures .2105" |
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caslor Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2006 Posts: 387 Location: Hellas - Greece
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Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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if you see in the pictures.. they are from official service manual (1966-1969) |
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1432 Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2006 Posts: 399 Location: so cal
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Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: |
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caslor,
The picture only gives diameters, nothing is shown on bearing shell thickness.
The numbers given show only .001" gain in thickness for every .020" increase in main bore diameter--- clearly wrong, just curious as to whether this is in print somewhere or just a mistake in posting. |
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caslor Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2006 Posts: 387 Location: Hellas - Greece
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Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: |
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this pictures taken from :
''VOLKSWAGEN
OFFICIAL SERVICE MANUAL
SUPER BEETLE,BEETLE & KARMAN GHIA 1966,19667,1968,1969
BENTLEY PUBLISHERS''
as i cant understand well the technical words in order to see if i can use the crankshaft as it is.. i will go to a machine shop to examine and 99% regriding it |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20380 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Problem seems to be data on this site....
http://lazy8parts.com/air_4_crankshaft_spec.htm
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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caslor Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2006 Posts: 387 Location: Hellas - Greece
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Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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nice site but is not that i need...
i know in what condition is my crank case...
i just want to see if the crankshaft... only the crank shaft.. is ok to use it without regriding it !!
the crankshaft is from an other engine so cant use the method of measure the thickness of bearings...
i dont think that machine shops measure like that the crank shaft to determine if must regrind or not...
i think this is the method that are using....
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caslor Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2006 Posts: 387 Location: Hellas - Greece
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Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 4:12 am Post subject: |
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here is something from the past
Because i never take an answer that could understand (sorry but sometimes speaking a different language has that problems )
so here i am asking something in theory,,,,
lets say that we have a crankshaft that is in the standard dimension and we want to determine if we need to get it for a regrinding or not
the standard main journal for # 1 is = 2.164" ok?
what is the tolerance for this measurement ?
what is the limit before we send the crankshaft for regrinding ?? or that is the limit and any number smaller than that is out of specification ?? _________________ CABRIO
63 RAGTOP |
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