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shorepig Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2005 Posts: 516 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 11:34 pm Post subject: Motor Problem..please help diagnose |
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I was driving up a steady steep incline at about 45 mph, when I heard a loud clattering sound, then noticed a drop in power. I pulled over, the van was idling rough. I shut it down did a compression check, and found that one cylinder is not firing. My compression test results were 150 150 150 70. When I disconnect and reconnect the 70 psi cylinder wire the motor does not change. The motor is running on three cylinders and has very low power. There is definitely a strong spark going to the cylinder in question. Before this happened, the van was making a bit of a clattering sound that would only occur above 3000 rpms.
So currently, the van is making a tapping sound, has a major loss of power, has no oil leaks.
Any insight would be great! |
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morymob Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: east-tn
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 3:20 am Post subject: |
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A bit of 'insight' as to what ? u are driving,GoldWing,truck, car,etc would help. |
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WestyBob Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004 Posts: 2346 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 4:53 am Post subject: Re: Motor Problem..please help diagnose |
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shorepig wrote: |
I was driving up a steady steep incline at about 45 mph, when I heard a loud clattering sound, then noticed a drop in power. I pulled over, the van was idling rough. Before this happened, the van was making a bit of a clattering sound that would only occur above 3000 rpms. So currently, the van is making a tapping sound, has a major loss of power |
I'll make a wild guess and say dropped/broken valve(s) ? Remove the valve cover and see if anything looks weird or falls out. Or perhaps a loose rod about to throw ? A simpler thing - is the plug ok (presuming the wores are as you've said) ? If yes, it needs to go to the car doctor right away. |
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mcsyncro Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2005 Posts: 193 Location: wherever subarus aren't
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:52 am Post subject: |
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if it dropped a valve, it would have 0 compression. I'd say either a seat came
loose in the head, or it has a broken valve spring. |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10078 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:59 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't say anything until the OP says what engine it is. And I might not say anything even then! _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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mcsyncro Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2005 Posts: 193 Location: wherever subarus aren't
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 11:11 am Post subject: |
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tencentlife wrote: |
I wouldn't say anything until the OP says what engine it is. And I might not say anything even then! |
I say it doesn't matter what kind of engine it is, their all pretty much
the came inside, unless he's got a DKW 2 stroke in it........... |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10078 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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If you say so. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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shorepig Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2005 Posts: 516 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, so I left out the details...
The engine is a GW 2.3 inside an 85 auto westy. The motor has about 10 000 miles on it.
The plug in the cylinder in question was very wet, and oily when I pulled it out. |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 3:47 am Post subject: |
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Right off the top of my head , unless it is a DKW 2 stroke, you've gone into the nuclear meltdown phase.
Wet plugs, No Compresh, and no fire mean deep trouble.
Tear the top end down and let us know what fried--
It's either a valve, the valve seat seat, or a piston. _________________ T.K. |
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ftp2leta Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004 Posts: 3271 Location: Montreal
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:15 am Post subject: |
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It's times like this having a Boroscope would sure come in handy.
You sure could have answered all of your questions in about 5 minutes.
The one I have sure has paid for itself many times. _________________ T.K. |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10078 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:57 am Post subject: |
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If it's true that it raises 70psi in that hole, then you can be 98% sure it doesn't have a cracked or holed piston, bent or broken valve, loose valve seat (something very rarely seen on wbx's, one of many reasons it matters which engine we're discussing), or broken rings, agents of doom and gloom notwithstanding. One might want to pop off the valve cover on the suspect side as was suggested, what, yesterday morning? and do a run-through on the valvetrain; no special tools needed but a screwdriver, flashlight, 13mm box and presence of mind to gather the facts that'll fill in the picture. While you do this just pull your hat down and ignore the vultures circling overhead. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Yep-it could very well be just a stuck or tight valve.
It's times like this some owner partcipation, would be real nice.
I'd for sure at least pop the valve cover & take a look what's going on in the valve train prior to getting nervous.
If one valve is stuck open, or not closing all the way --this is more than likely your problem.
If that ain't it--well, you'll need to either yank the top end apart for a discovery trip, or get ahold of a Boroscope to see what's going on. _________________ T.K. |
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gbrandt Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 578 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Most people don't own boroscopes.
Gregor _________________ 'Lucky' our 1987 Red Westy, ASV 1.9 TDI ~130HP, Peloquin differential (had a GW 2.3 that we loved, but it died, we drove it hard!)
We've driven in 49 countries and 5 continents to date
Canada to Argentina and back, 2015 to 2017.
Canada to Europe and back (including Turkey, Morocco and Iceland), 2017 to 2019
Mexico 2022-2023
https://www.instagram.com/live.travel.play/
http://livetravelplay.ca |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Rent one, borrow one.
That's pretty simple. _________________ T.K. |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10078 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Terry Kay wrote: |
Yep-it could very well be just a stuck or tight valve.
It's times like this some owner partcipation, would be real nice.
I'd for sure at least pop the valve cover & take a look what's going on in the valve train prior to getting nervous.
If one valve is stuck open, or not closing all the way --this is more than likely your problem.
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There ya go, TK. Those things, plus bent or broken pushrod, broken valve-spring (the AMC heads have been known to have this happen once or twice) and the one my money's on, total collapse of a lifter. The clacking prior to the disaster-like sound seems like a fairly strong cue for that one.
Anyway, I'm done until we see some more feedback. I can only wank it for so long before my arm gets tired. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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shorepig Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2005 Posts: 516 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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On Wednesday I will have it into the shop for a peek. I sure hope it's nothing BIG. This is motor #2 from GW. Even with their warranty, the first failed motor (#3 piston had a melt down) cost us $2000 in repairs. We've only put about 10 000 miles on this motor, so this really bites. You guys will have to keep "wank'n it" for a couple of days until we find out what lurks beneath that valve cover.
I'm going with Tencents theory....collapsed lifter. The motor was making a clattering sound at high rpms prior to the breakdown. This clattering sounded exactly like a reocurring problem I had previously with a loose torque converter bolt rattling around. Well..now I know its not a loose torque convertor bolt Do rebuilt motors need to have the valves or lifters re-tightened after a certain period? |
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ccisco Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2008 Posts: 212 Location: eugene
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject: engine noise |
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[Do rebuilt motors need to have the valves or lifters re-tightened after a certain period?]
Normally, hydo lifters should self-adjust after that initial clacking and stuff. However, many lifters have those little paperclip like retainers, rather than the c-clip kind, and those can pop out....
Good Luck |
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RCB Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2005 Posts: 4143 Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Shorepig, have you called, faxed, E-mailed ,or sent smoke signals to GW about this problem ? |
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rblake3 Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 154 Location: Whidbey Island, WA
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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No report on valvetrain inspection? Takes 10 minutes to pop off the valve covers and have a look see. Take the pushrod bar off and look at the pushrods. You may even be able to get a flashlight and mirror to look through the pushrod tube to the lifter to see if the clip is floating around? Re-adjust the valves, change the oil.
Put oil into cylinder bore when doing compression test to see if it comes up. But sounds more like lifter/valve as described by others above.
What would really be benificial for YOU however is to spend the small amount of money comparatively on a proper oil pressure, oil temp gauge set up for your motor. At least you will know before hand just before your new 3500 dollar WBX will grenade itself and possibly prevent further damage. Oil pressure is vitally important to monitor on these crappy, I mean well engineered VW motors. _________________ 90 Vanagon Carat Wander Wagon
88 16v GTi
01 1.8T Beetle
94 Miata
Vanagon H4 E-Code Lighting Upgrade page |
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