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6 volt to 12 volt?
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shifty6d
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

volkswagenut wrote:
12V alt. diagram

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The "idiot light " is in the speedo right? This picture shows an internally regulated alt., right, so I can just wire it as the pic shows and ignore the directions at the bottom?

-I'm putting a 1600 into a '60
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shifty6d
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even more lost now, maybe 'cause I'm trying to look at three pictures of wiring at once. Starting to pull my hair out.

Basic story: I have a '60 bug that I just put a Wireworks harness and a 1600DP with an internally regulated alternator in (looks just like pic above).

Red #50 from ign. switch to the starter and the coil wiring makes sense, but..........

The harness has a #30 B+ that went to (+) volt. reg. It would now go to B+ on the alt. right?

There is a #61 blue wire that went from the idiot light in the speedo to the volt. reg. Does it now connect to D+ on the alternator?

Then I would still need to connect another wire from B+ on the alt. to #30 on the starter, right?

Hope this wasn't too confusing, any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Wayne Kerr
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 8:56 pm    Post subject: New 12 volt wire motor spool Reply with quote

I have a '61 beetle.

I bought what was supposed to be a 12 volt spool (armature/stator) for my exisiting 6 volt motor. It turns out that the spool wouldn't fit my motor housing because the center shaft is too short.

Now I have a perfectly good $35 12 volt spool. I'd prefer not to use the various reducer kits as I'd like to stay as clean/correct as possible under the hood while maintaining a 12 volt wiper system.

I think I was supposed to verfiy the OEM of my wiper motor but I'm not sure I know. There's no obvious name markings on the motor cover.

Does there exist a correct 12 volt spool for a 6 volt Bosch wiper motor?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Cheers,
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Hakka
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kind of a funky question here. I am not sure this is the best place for it as it is kind of the opposite of what most are doing in this thread.
What would happen if a 12v wiper motor was hooked up to a 6v system? Would it even work? Just stupid slow? Maybe put it on "fast" and be adequate?
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Wayne Kerr
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It started the other way around actually, i.e. a 6v motor running off a 12v conversion.
The 12v dial convertor worked for a while then died and the wipers ran fast... so I tried installing a 12V armature, but again, not the right length on the armature shaft.

Since then, I think other armature options have come out so, I'll end this thread and keep trying.

Thanks for all the input.
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CPL_Guimonster
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:31 pm    Post subject: 12 volt conversion Reply with quote

When I converted my '65 I got a auto-stick starter.It is self supporting and does not need to mess with bushings and/or adapters.
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Jim Douglas Jr.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I did when keeping a car 6 volt was replace the wiring harness, but before I installed it, I sat on the kitchen floor one night and soldered ALL of the crimped connectors. The crimps were all immaculate, but that little bit of solder from the wire ends to the connector will make all the difference.

The cars ran and worked fine for decades on 6 volt, but as the connections, especially where the exposed bare wire ends have the connectors crimped on, eventually corrode slightly and that makes the connections bad.

Everything works great and I'm almost a year out. Fires right up, no hard start relay or anything.
This is on a '63 with all push on connectors. Obviously this wouldn't be needed on the earlier cars with the screw terminals.

The weak 'everything' and hard starting are ALL symptoms of poor, aged connections. The corrosion usually leaches up an inch or two up the wire inside the casing, so unless you want to splice new ends onto everything, a new harness is a good idea. You have to decide how much your time is worth doing that vs. buying and installing a new harness.
Starting fresh with nice, neat new wire is pretty nice.

As for the starter, I know probably 7 or 8 people using the 6 volt starters and flywheels on 12 volt with no problem. Because of the huge resistance of the starter motor, doubling the voltage really isn't spinning it twice as fast. It's still drawing the same amperage. It's probably only 20% faster spin with a better push behind it (Voltage is the "push" in electricity). Still, 20% is a nice boost.
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Bert21
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good Job..Some Basic Tutorial..Everyone Benefits Thanx

Good Day

Regards

Albert

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Thorsten
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don't forget to change the starter bearing which is in the transmission housing. $4.00 dollar part will make a world of difference. trust me I just went through this.
Thor
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Wayne S. Johnson
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thorsten wrote:
don't forget to change the starter bearing which is in the transmission housing. $4.00 dollar part will make a world of difference. trust me I just went through this.
Thor


A warn trans bushing can cause the armature to drag on the shoes, which will damage the armature.

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pupjoint
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

replaced the starter in my 66 today, gotthe car few months back, found out i have a 6V starter, 6V flywheel but my car has been converted to 12 god knows when, so my car has had the original 6v stuff since it came out of the factory!
so dropped the motor and changed out to a 12V flywheel, impossible to get any 6 v starter and i checked my existing 6V starter, it had some wear on the amature and the flywheel had some damage....very minimal considering it has been converted to 12V....probably 20 years ago??

6V starter and the new IMI look alike starter I got.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Bosch 6V starter and Bosch 12V starter.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


see the gear differences between a 6V and 12V

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


well, since i cant get a replacement 6V starter and my 6V starter needs servicing, something I dont intend to do, and my new starter wont work with flywheel, replacing the flywheel was the only choice! and engine down the only way Very Happy
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Wayne S. Johnson
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
well, since i cant get a replacement 6V starter and my 6V starter needs servicing, something I dont intend to do, and my new starter wont work with flywheel, replacing the flywheel was the only choice! and engine down the only way Very Happy


NOT TRUE!

This is the BOSCH HYBRID 6/12 starter, which is a 12 volt starter that mounts in 6 volt transmission with a 6 V flywheel and 6 V bushing.
No modifications are necessary to install this 12 V starter in a 6 V transmission with a 6 V flywheel and a 6 volt trans busing.

Warranty protects against defects in material and workmanship for a period of one year from the date of delivery to the original user.

When you convert your VW form 6 V to 12 V you can replace your starter with the BOSCH HYBRID 6/12. This remanufactured starter has all the mechanical dimensions of a 6 V starter with internal components modified to operate on 12 V.

You donít need to spend the time and money to remove the engine, replace flywheel, replace pinion bushing or grind the bell housing. Using a stock 6 volt starter in a 12 volt conversion will trash your flywheel and starter teeth. Donít risk sudden starter failure and getting stranded with a burned out 6 volt starter.

Here are your other options:
To save $15 by use a remanufactured 6V Starter, $149.99
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw?frame=1.5000
Install a 12V starter for $149.99, 12 Volt flywheel $70, O-ring $2, Shims $10, Seal $3 and a 6/12 bushing $3 Total = $238 and 3-4 hours to install.
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw?frame=1.4993
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw?frame=1.5000


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pupjoint
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayne S. Johnson wrote:
Quote:
well, since i cant get a replacement 6V starter and my 6V starter needs servicing, something I dont intend to do, and my new starter wont work with flywheel, replacing the flywheel was the only choice! and engine down the only way Very Happy


NOT TRUE!

This is the BOSCH HYBRID 6/12 starter, which is a 12 volt starter that mounts in 6 volt transmission with a 6 V flywheel and 6 V bushing.
No modifications are necessary to install this 12 V starter in a 6 V transmission with a 6 V flywheel and a 6 volt trans busing.

Warranty protects against defects in material and workmanship for a period of one year from the date of delivery to the original user.

When you convert your VW form 6 V to 12 V you can replace your starter with the BOSCH HYBRID 6/12. This remanufactured starter has all the mechanical dimensions of a 6 V starter with internal components modified to operate on 12 V.

You donít need to spend the time and money to remove the engine, replace flywheel, replace pinion bushing or grind the bell housing. Using a stock 6 volt starter in a 12 volt conversion will trash your flywheel and starter teeth. Donít risk sudden starter failure and getting stranded with a burned out 6 volt starter.

Here are your other options:
To save $15 by use a remanufactured 6V Starter, $149.99
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw?frame=1.5000
Install a 12V starter for $149.99, 12 Volt flywheel $70, O-ring $2, Shims $10, Seal $3 and a 6/12 bushing $3 Total = $238 and 3-4 hours to install.
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw?frame=1.4993
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw?frame=1.5000


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yea i read your posts on those hybrid starters, but unfortunately for me i am almost 17 hours flight to the US and those starters would have cost me close to USD450 to reach my doorstep. plus in my case, i have those flywheels lying around and the IMI look alike only cost me approx USD70...
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Wayne S. Johnson
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pupjoint wrote:
Wayne S. Johnson wrote:
Quote:
well, since i cant get a replacement 6V starter and my 6V starter needs servicing, something I dont intend to do, and my new starter wont work with flywheel, replacing the flywheel was the only choice! and engine down the only way Very Happy


NOT TRUE!

This is the BOSCH HYBRID 6/12 starter, which is a 12 volt starter that mounts in 6 volt transmission with a 6 V flywheel and 6 V bushing.
No modifications are necessary to install this 12 V starter in a 6 V transmission with a 6 V flywheel and a 6 volt trans busing.

Warranty protects against defects in material and workmanship for a period of one year from the date of delivery to the original user.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


yea i read your posts on those hybrid starters, but unfortunately for me i am almost 17 hours flight to the US and those starters would have cost me close to USD450 to reach my doorstep. plus in my case, i have those flywheels lying around and the IMI look alike only cost me approx USD70...


International Priority Mail is $42, the total is $242.
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Adam'sDad
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question, and I think it belongs in this thread. I have a '59 bug that is already swapped over to 12 volt, but I bought an electronic gas guage for this vintage, and I want to test the sending unit to see if it works. Can I hook it up to a 12 volt battery to test it? I don't have a 6 volt battery, and these vintage parts are too expensive to fry trying to test them. Is there an easier way?
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will work, BUT be careful the 6 volt needle will peg a lot harder on 12 volts and can break off.
A loose wire in our 1963 SC, the needle kept bouncing around and had that happen!
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Adam'sDad
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I understand that I should be careful when testing it, but that makes me wonder about installing it with a 12 volt system. Is there a voltage reduction gizmo that will allow it to work properly in a 12 volt system? Does somebody have one they can take a picture of?
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gerg
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayne S. Johnson wrote:
Quote:
well, since i cant get a replacement 6V starter and my 6V starter needs servicing, something I dont intend to do, and my new starter wont work with flywheel, replacing the flywheel was the only choice! and engine down the only way Very Happy


NOT TRUE!

This is the BOSCH HYBRID 6/12 starter, which is a 12 volt starter that mounts in 6 volt transmission with a 6 V flywheel and 6 V bushing.
No modifications are necessary to install this 12 V starter in a 6 V transmission with a 6 V flywheel and a 6 volt trans busing.

Warranty protects against defects in material and workmanship for a period of one year from the date of delivery to the original user.

When you convert your VW form 6 V to 12 V you can replace your starter with the BOSCH HYBRID 6/12. This remanufactured starter has all the mechanical dimensions of a 6 V starter with internal components modified to operate on 12 V.

You donít need to spend the time and money to remove the engine, replace flywheel, replace pinion bushing or grind the bell housing. Using a stock 6 volt starter in a 12 volt conversion will trash your flywheel and starter teeth. Donít risk sudden starter failure and getting stranded with a burned out 6 volt starter.

Here are your other options:
To save $15 by use a remanufactured 6V Starter, $149.99
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw?frame=1.5000
Install a 12V starter for $149.99, 12 Volt flywheel $70, O-ring $2, Shims $10, Seal $3 and a 6/12 bushing $3 Total = $238 and 3-4 hours to install.
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw?frame=1.4993
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw?frame=1.5000


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I got one last year and will start using it htis year. Car is coming home tomorrow from paint.

VERY nice unit. Still need to return my core. . . is there a time limit on that?
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Wayne S. Johnson
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerg wrote:
Wayne S. Johnson wrote:
Quote:
well, since i cant get a replacement 6V starter and my 6V starter needs servicing, something I dont intend to do, and my new starter wont work with flywheel, replacing the flywheel was the only choice! and engine down the only way Very Happy


NOT TRUE!

This is the BOSCH HYBRID 6/12 starter, which is a 12 volt starter that mounts in 6 volt transmission with a 6 V flywheel and 6 V bushing.
No modifications are necessary to install this 12 V starter in a 6 V transmission with a 6 V flywheel and a 6 volt trans busing.

Warranty protects against defects in material and workmanship for a period of one year from the date of delivery to the original user.

When you convert your VW form 6 V to 12 V you can replace your starter with the BOSCH HYBRID 6/12. This remanufactured starter has all the mechanical dimensions of a 6 V starter with internal components modified to operate on 12 V.

You donít need to spend the time and money to remove the engine, replace flywheel, replace pinion bushing or grind the bell housing. Using a stock 6 volt starter in a 12 volt conversion will trash your flywheel and starter teeth. Donít risk sudden starter failure and getting stranded with a burned out 6 volt starter.

Here are your other options:
To save $15 by use a remanufactured 6V Starter, $149.99
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw?frame=1.5000
Install a 12V starter for $149.99, 12 Volt flywheel $70, O-ring $2, Shims $10, Seal $3 and a 6/12 bushing $3 Total = $238 and 3-4 hours to install.
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw?frame=1.4993
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw?frame=1.5000


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I got one last year and will start using it htis year. Car is coming home tomorrow from paint.

VERY nice unit. Still need to return my core. . . is there a time limit on that?


No problem, send your core whenever you have the time.
It's good to hear you are making progress.

Wayne
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam'sDad wrote:
So I understand that I should be careful when testing it, but that makes me wonder about installing it with a 12 volt system. Is there a voltage reduction gizmo that will allow it to work properly in a 12 volt system? Does somebody have one they can take a picture of?


Probably would be a good idea to contact one of the electronics gurus here about this problem.
Know that using a 6 volt radio in a 12 volt system by using only a resistor will not work for long.

So try:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=360754&highlight=volt+radio
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