| Author |
Message |
scottz
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2008
Posts: 477
Location: Bellingham, WA
|
 Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: Added Value of O.E. Engine? |
 |
|
So, I got my 'Birth Certificate' for my car the other day and, it confirmed that my engine is the original one that came with the car. YAY! 
(took about 5 weeks, and cost $45.50)
My question is, how much, if any, value does this add to the car?
I know this doesn't mean as much in the VW world, as it does in other car collecting/hobby communities but, shouldn't count for something...?
These engines get swapped so often that it seems it would be more rare to find an OE engine.
I know a lot depends on the level of restoration, and what your going for...all original, custom,etc... I am just asking in general.
I am not a purest but my car is mostly O.E. with a re-paint and new interior but lowered. When it comes time for a re-build, I will either do a mild hop-up of the O.E. motor. Or set it in the corner of the garage and start with a new block and go to a 1915cc or something. But I am leaning towards keeping the O.E. case in the car.
Please share your opinions/comments!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
tstracy39
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 3294
Location: Seattle, WA
|
| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The value is almost entirely in the bragging rights. An unstamped NOS replacement case is almost as desirable as the original case, especially if your Ghia was originally equipped with an H case. There's an unstamped NOS case in the classifieds for $600. Still it's very nice to have the original case, congratulations.
_________________
Check my classifieds for kewl gauges:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=tstracy39
| EverettB wrote: |
| I like your fork. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
connella08
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2009
Posts: 833
Location: south central mass
|
| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| when i bought my ghia it had a seized engine. i believe it was the original but we put in a SB engine instead. i still have the case though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
|
| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Unless your car is a perfect show car, IMO numbers matching doesn't mean much. Things like rust and prior collision damage are much more important to a buyer.
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sputnick60
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 3916
Location: In Molinya Orbit
|
| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 5:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
My ghia has the original engine too. The plan is to build a mild 1800 motor but keep the original. Later I will rebuild the 1300 but not install it.
For me the original engine is a "nice to have" but a car that goes really well has more appeal. If I should ever sell this one I'll let the the next guy have the OG motor and keep the 1800 for something else,
Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tondemonai
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2008
Posts: 364
Location: Memphis, TN
|
| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 6:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
What about a low light? I don't have original original engine, but I still have an 1200 32hp. According to the number, it's a 1960 engine, in the 1957 body. Would keeping the 1200 (I'm keeping the car stock) be worse than putting a 1500 or 1600 engine in it?
_________________
(O= i =O) One day, lad, this car will be yours. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thom
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2000
Posts: 5943
Location: Sacramento
|
| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 8:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
The value of having the original engine increases with the age of the car. 1974 Ghia + original engine =  1955 ghia with original engine = 
Having the original engine is icing on the cake for an otherwise nice car. For example, my '52 bug has the original engine, but the rest of the car is such a POS that it doesn't really matter 
_________________
-Thom
1956 Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof
1957 23-Window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Westfalia single cab
1963 Unimog 404
1965 E-Type |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Moxon 
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13952
Location: Southampton U.K.
|
| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 8:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tondemonai wrote: |
| What about a low light? I don't have original original engine, but I still have an 1200 32hp. According to the number, it's a 1960 engine, in the 1957 body. Would keeping the 1200 (I'm keeping the car stock) be worse than putting a 1500 or 1600 engine in it? |
Well who knows?? There really isn't a definative answer to this, as it only becomes an issue when you come to sell.
Lowlight matching numbers may be the "Holy Grail" to someone looking for a concours show car; to others, nice to have but not essential; and again to someone who wants a stylish Sports Coupe that goes as good as it looks...positively horrendous.
My '58 came with a replacement 1200 40hp engine with a Big Bore Kit (1385cc). I had that rebuilt rather than resorting to spec with a rebuilt 36hp 1200. My reason was I wanted to keep the continuity of the car's history...and it's a good base for a period "hop-up."
If the original engine is gone...it's gone for good, you can't change that. Do what you want, enjoy it and forget about what will make you more money when you come to sell it.
_________________
John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
retrowagen
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 1856
|
| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
By and large, I'd say it adds quite a bit of value to the vehicle. And may make it quite a bit easier to register for roadway use in some places, where documents are checked for this sort of thing and a paper trail for engine number corresponding with a chassis number is important.
_________________
David Ruby
President, Karmann-Ghia World Club |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
InSaNeBoY
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2004
Posts: 313
Location: Portland, ME
|
| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I donno kinda of nice knowing I have the OE engine in my ghia(got the birth cert from VW to back that up)... and knowing from PO info (I'm 3rd owner, 2nt was my dad, 1st owner lived one town away...)
in any case I know my engine/trans is OE and neither have ever been rebuilt.  and i know my 77K mi is actual as well. Carb on the other hand... not OE 
_________________
2015 Jetta S
1998 Chevy AstroAWD
*ghialess* |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vdubzen
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2006
Posts: 227
Location: ABQ, NM 87110
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i just picked up a 60 ghia with the original 36 hp engine. i am planning on just keeping it stock.
_________________
60 karmann ghia
68 microbus
73 super beetle
74 beetle
current reigning president, albuquerque air alliance / rt 66 air-cooled vw club
Look for us on Facebook |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NOVA Airhead
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2005
Posts: 5221
Location: Richmond, VA
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| John Moxon wrote: |
| tondemonai wrote: |
| What about a low light? I don't have original original engine, but I still have an 1200 32hp. According to the number, it's a 1960 engine, in the 1957 body. Would keeping the 1200 (I'm keeping the car stock) be worse than putting a 1500 or 1600 engine in it? |
Well who knows?? There really isn't a definative answer to this, as it only becomes an issue when you come to sell.
Lowlight matching numbers may be the "Holy Grail" to someone looking for a concours show car; to others, nice to have but not essential; and again to someone who wants a stylish Sports Coupe that goes as good as it looks...positively horrendous.
My '58 came with a replacement 1200 40hp engine with a Big Bore Kit (1385cc). I had that rebuilt rather than resorting to spec with a rebuilt 36hp 1200. My reason was I wanted to keep the continuity of the car's history...and it's a good base for a period "hop-up."
If the original engine is gone...it's gone for good, you can't change that. Do what you want, enjoy it and forget about what will make you more money when you come to sell it. |
Lets hope things don't get to the point with VWs like they have with some other vintage cars. The situation with Corvettes is terrible. I think there are more big block '67 Corvettes registered in CA alone than Chevrolet ever produced. There are people restamping blocks and creating casting marks out of epoxy. Some are so good that "experts" can be fooled.
I have seen the blocks of cars inspected by experts with a jewelers eye piece trying to determine if a block stamp is just right.
Of course Chevrolet didn't help the situation. The production records for old Vettes were trashed years ago making it difficult to determine what equipment was delivered on a car - particularly any car produced before 1967.
_________________
Ghia Owner Emeritus |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
slafa
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2008
Posts: 944
Location: Where getting a real beer is like winning the lotto
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Speaking of vettes, I owned a '69 Vert purported to be an L88 tri carb, at the time valued at about $70,000 if it really was one. Unfortunately all the ways to prove it was an L88 were conspicuously missing and partly because of Chevy's lack of records. I got it for 10K from someone in bad financial straits so I figured I couldnt lose. Turned it a couple months later for 16K to a guy who thought it was the Holy Grail. Turns out he finally found out it wasn't an L88....
_________________
'63 KG Roadster proj.
1973 Mercury Montego MX Brougham
1977 Dodge Tradesman 200 "shorty" Van
1983 Ford 350 Econoline Ambulance
1997 Mercedes S500 W140
1976 BMW 75/6 bike
various Honda, GMC daily drivers |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bruce Amacker
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NOVA Airhead
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2005
Posts: 5221
Location: Richmond, VA
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bruce Amacker wrote: |
I've got a restored '63 Split Window Coupe, and it does have the original numbers match 327 engine in it. Oddly enough, NCRS does accept a restamped block for Top Flight designation......
 |
I personally don't see a problem with a restamped block as long as it is not represented as something it isn't.
However I cannot see the reason for doing this if it is represented as a NOM. You open up the potential for problems when someone either forgets the car is not original or is intentinally misrepresents it later on down the line.
I had a personal experience in this regard. I purchased a vintage Corvette that was documented as a Bloomington Gold car. It turns out the documentation was faked. I am not sure who did it but fortunately for me the seller I purchased the car from ownned a Chevy dealership. I had assets to go after and it was difficult for him to claim he did not know any better. Also, as a licensed dealer, he was facing triple damges under state law for misrepresenting a used vehicle.
Needles to say he settled the lawsuit quickly for the dminished value of the car not being Bloomington Gold certified.
So how does this relate to a Ghia? Aside from Ghias being great cars, the VW hobby has not, for the most part, gotten to this level. Lets hope it stays that way.
_________________
Ghia Owner Emeritus |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Moxon
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13952
Location: Southampton U.K.
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| NOVA Airhead wrote: |
So how does this relate to a Ghia? Aside from Ghias being great cars, the VW hobby has not, for the most part, gotten to this level. Lets hope it stays that way. |
That is a very interesting point Nova. The real money in Vintage VWs revolves around early coachbuilts like Hebmullers, Barndoor Buses, Deluxe Sambas and early Beetles and Beetle 'Verts. In my opinion it's because of this website and the range and depth of expertise of many contributors, fakes are spotted and shot down at a very early stage. Add to that German efficiency in record keeping, you also have more safeguards.
If you were spending a large amount on a vintage VW and with questions to ask most people would come here. That in my opinion makes fakes in the VW world very much more difficult to carry off.
The Vintage American car world is so much larger and diverse it's easier to sneak a fake into the system.
_________________
John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
