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LynnsABCs Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2004 Posts: 95 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:21 pm Post subject: My AC Rebuild Project |
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Here is the start of my do-it-once AC rehab. This is a nice 87 Weekender with Auto and a 30K Canadian rebuilt engine. I've done lots of mechanical work and got it running well with 18 mpg on the highway.
I'm at work on break and will have to load the work photos tonight.
This is not going to be a speedy process as my son has a 356 sunroof coupe we are getting ready for the East Coast Holiday in Sept.
I'm 60 and this is my retirement RV. With my son out of college and on his on, there is finally some disposable income to spend on me.
The AC did not work when I bought the van although belt was in place. Began process last night. I read everything here I could find with lots of helpful info, esp. TK. The AC site listed in the big AC thread was also very helpful for information base.
Bought a gauge set and vacumn pump + a laser thermometer from Harbor Freight for about $60 total. Hooked up gauges last night to test if the system had any pressure. It didn't so evacuating was not an issue.
Next I blew compressor air thru the high to low side and got a little bit of oil to come out. Going the other way, no oil and lower air flow. This was a curiosity step, as I intend on replacing most of the 20 yr old components so this does not endup being a multi-job process.
The rear panel removed on the intake side of the evaporator. The trash can was to help catch the box, but most of the weight is the evaporator still fastened to the roof. Anyone know how the evaporator comes loose--I don't see any fasteners.
Decided to do the hardest job first and dropped the rear box to clean the evaporator and blowers and to remove the Expansion Valve. Hardest part was the rear brackets, but removing the speakers gave me room by working thru the speaker holes.
Intake (rear) view of the evaporator. Most of the rotten foam was gone. I managed to break one of the drain ends (on the right side).
Front side (inside the back seat) view of the evaporator. The arrows point to the wire used to tie on the rotten and gone filter.
The circled brackets are the ones difficult to reach at the back of the evaporator (facing front of van).
Undoing the EV without twisting the evaporator lines was difficult. Finally got that loose and then discovered getting the hoses loose from the expansion valve was even harder. They were on really tite. Doing it the other way around would have been easy to twist the evaporator tubing.
The expansion valve.
Closeup of expansion valve with evaporator lines disconnected.
The relay and fuse panel behind the left rear cabinet. The 2 fuses are circled. Does the cabinet pull out toward the front of the van for removal?
Saturday I hope to remove the high side line to the front condensor as I hope to get that hose remade in barrier hose. There was a good article on the AC site about cleaning/priming a used compressor using the new installation oil. Pour some oil in, rotate 10 revolutions and catch the compressed oil out the discharged side into a paper towel and read the tea leaves for rust, dirt, etc.
I am worried about Black Death mentioned also--failure of my existing compressor. Looks like you could redo lines, receiver/dryer and expansion valve and then have the compressor blow contaminating everything and at least ruining the R/D.
Any opinions about which lines are most likely to burst? I may just replace them all. The hose place is closed today so I can't get a ballpark idea what having new lines made will run. _________________ LynnsABCs
Knoxville, Tn
1990 Vanagon Westy
1961 Porsche 356 B Notchback Coupe
Last edited by LynnsABCs on Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:24 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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scottjk Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006 Posts: 485 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject: New compressor |
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If I had this project to do over the first thing I'd do is drop the $245 for a new compressor instead of trying to get what I had working, then replacing it with a junk yard compressor, then finally going new.
Southeast Air in TX, 800-274-1251
Scott _________________ 1985 Westfalia 2.5L EJ |
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LynnsABCs Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2004 Posts: 95 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Scot, was that the same model number compressor in the van now or another Sanden compressor? _________________ LynnsABCs
Knoxville, Tn
1990 Vanagon Westy
1961 Porsche 356 B Notchback Coupe |
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scottjk Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006 Posts: 485 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: Sanden |
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It came with the Sanden sticker and I believe it was the 508 but I'm not completely sure. I'm out of town for 3 days. I can let you know when I get home.
Scott _________________ 1985 Westfalia 2.5L EJ |
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LynnsABCs Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2004 Posts: 95 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Got about 5 hrs of work on the van today. Started with the compressor.
Ran about 5 shots of Ester oil thru the suction side of the compressor to see what's in it.
Here's how I spun it to get the oil and crud to discharge.
First discharge of dirty oil/crud.
Turned the compressor over and noted the salvage yard writting with 81 Jetta. Older than my van! Decided to buy a new compressor.
Next step was to drop the evaporator for cleaning. Figured out removing the vent cover that sits in front of the evaporator would let me slide out the plastic piece wedged under the evaporator. Here is the cover removed.
With cover out of the way, I could slide the plastic piece out and found 4 phillips screws holding the evaporator to the roof.
_________________ LynnsABCs
Knoxville, Tn
1990 Vanagon Westy
1961 Porsche 356 B Notchback Coupe |
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LynnsABCs Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2004 Posts: 95 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Found lots of rotten foam on the roof side of the evaporator.
Vacumed the foam and then used Simple Green and lots of water to clean the outside of the evaporator being careful to stay away from the fittings. I couldn't find TK's brake line cleaner on Friday night, but I bought a quart of AC system cleaner for $14. Too high but I wanted to work some today. Used another big siringe to put 2 full loads about four times thru the evaporator. Let it sit for 10 minutes as recommended on the bottle. Straightened some cooling fins while I was waiting. Compressed air to blow out the cleaner.
First load.
The last load looked much cleaner, but I'm going to run a bottle of brake line cleaner later when I find it. Am going to try to reuse the evaporator. Looks like it's about $350 to replace.
With the evaporator down, I simply turned the rear cabinet to the right and took it out for cleaning. Here is what was under the cabinet.
The relays behind the cabinet.
Decided to finish the day's work by pulling the two main lines to the front condensor and removed the dryer. Hard job to pull the hoses.
The hoses ready to go to local business to have them duplicated.
The smaller hose was pretty dry rotted. Time to buy some parts. _________________ LynnsABCs
Knoxville, Tn
1990 Vanagon Westy
1961 Porsche 356 B Notchback Coupe |
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campism Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007 Posts: 4491 Location: Richmond VA
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Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:02 am Post subject: |
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Great write up and pics! I've had the cabinets out of my '87 Westy so I'm familiar with the layout but it's great to see the step-by-step on the redo. My A/C system is semi-sorta-okay for now but I'm gathering parts and courage for this job in the future. |
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LynnsABCs Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2004 Posts: 95 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Pulled the interior lines Sunday. There are fewer total lines than I expected. Five total including the connector piece on the end of the line from the evaporator to the compressor.
Took the old lines to the local hose supplier and ordered a replacement set made in barrier hose. They expect the hoses to be ready by Wed. Estimated about $200 for the full set with new fittings unless there is a size they don't have in stock, they will re-use the old fitting.
For those curious, I checked the size of the line connections on my system so you know what size large open end wrenches you will need for this project.
The large long hose to the front condensor has 22mm on both ends.
The small long hose from the condensor back to the receiver/drier has 19mm on both ends.
The large evaporator fitting is 24mm.
The small evaporator fitting is 17mm.
The short piece of hose that attached on the end of the hose from the evaporator to the discharge side of the compressor is 27mm on one end and 22mm on the other.
I think that's all the fittings.
I removed the two electrical fittings--one was green and the other black--to install back on the new lines. Photos of the new hoses when they are ready. Ordering replacement parts tonight and Red Tek tomorrow. _________________ LynnsABCs
Knoxville, Tn
1990 Vanagon Westy
1961 Porsche 356 B Notchback Coupe |
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LynnsABCs Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2004 Posts: 95 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Ordered parts today.
New Sanden SD709 compressor from Southeast Air--$245 + shipping. (Thanks for posting this source, I looked back thru my printed copy of the big A/C thread, but couldn't find your name).
From Van-Cafe, expansion valve, receiver/dryer and retro kit with o rings.
From RedTek in Maryville, Tn--5 cans of RedTek--just $7.11 per can. No stop leak ordered or used due to parts replacement.
Hoses are supposed to be ready tomorrow or Thursday.
Talked to a Heat/Air tech at work today--major A/C replacement in our building--about adding refrigerant. He said most people rush it by turning the can upside down and loading the compressor with a big gulp of liquid. Hard on the compressor. He said to take your time, keep can upright in a pan of hot water and let it load as a gas. The hot water makes the can empty faster and keeps it from freezing. Does that sound correct?
Thanks to Presslab for the link to autoacforum.com. Very helpful info to supplement what has been discussed here.
On hoses, I think if you take your hoses piece meal to be redone, you will pay more than if you take them all at once. My guy bases it on shop time and once they set up, it's quicker to do all at once. Just a thought.
TK, just so I understand. I'm going to put the box cover back over the evaporator, and then tie wrap the filter material on the intake end of the box (the rear of the van) just behind the closing panel that slides into the end of the box. Does that sound right? Than it can be easily removed and cleaned. _________________ LynnsABCs
Knoxville, Tn
1990 Vanagon Westy
1961 Porsche 356 B Notchback Coupe |
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LynnsABCs Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2004 Posts: 95 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hoses were ready this afternoon--right on schedule. $251.28 including tax. That's all new fittings and they even installed o-rings. They said all the fittings were standard, not metric so no problem on replacing all the fittings.
Mounted the evaporator with brackets back on the roof. Carefully wrapped the ends of the evaporator lines to run them down into the engine compartment and pre-installed them. The rubber grommets the hoses run thru the body were in pretty good shape so I lubed them and reused 'em.
Waiting on the expansion valve and receiver/dryer from VC.
Decided to run the long hoses to the condensor in front and they are all hooked up.
RedTek arrived.
I'll be working the next few days on getting my Son's 356 engine back in his car. _________________ LynnsABCs
Knoxville, Tn
1990 Vanagon Westy
1961 Porsche 356 B Notchback Coupe |
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LynnsABCs Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2004 Posts: 95 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Brand new compressor arrived Friday but the Van Cafe order is not due until Tuesday. I realized Saturday morning working on my son's car, that the rear cabinet has to go in before the evaporator is mounted. I'm glad I thought of that before I hooked up all the fittings to the expansion valve!!
So we got the 356 engine installed Saturday.
Carbs and engine sheet metal installed after this photo. Waiting on gaskets to install exhaust and re-built fuel pump.
The car getting it's engine re-installed. Note the VW theme of my son's garage.
His other 356--a 59 Coupe.
Might as well add a photo of my 71 911E Sunroof. If this A/C rehab is successful, I'm planning on re-installing A/C in the 911. The body was cut for the A/C lines so I won't be cutting up such a nice early car. Planning on using an update kit that includes all new barrier lines, new upgraded evaporator and new modern wheelwell condensors.
And engine. _________________ LynnsABCs
Knoxville, Tn
1990 Vanagon Westy
1961 Porsche 356 B Notchback Coupe |
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James 93SLC Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 937 Location: NE Ohio
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Anxious for an update |
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LynnsABCs Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2004 Posts: 95 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:53 am Post subject: |
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Me too!! Went to the National BMW Motorcycle Rally last weekend and have a Miata show I will be working in Fontana this weekend.
All the parts are here and I started working on it last night. Re-installed o the bottom switch (black one) on the left side panel. Discovered the top switch (the green one) didn't want to start into the fitting. The threads are mangled and I didn't have a 9 mm x 1.0 die to fix the threads and it was too late to go buy one. I did have the correct tap and it ran into the new hose fitting, so at least that's not going to be a problem.
Maybe more work early next week. Stay tuned. _________________ LynnsABCs
Knoxville, Tn
1990 Vanagon Westy
1961 Porsche 356 B Notchback Coupe |
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climberjohn Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2005 Posts: 1840 Location: Portland Orygun
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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:10 am Post subject: |
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This is a great post and photos, please keep it going.
Thanks! _________________ '86 Westy, 2.5 Subaru power
Know your limits. Exceed them often. |
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hiram6 Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2006 Posts: 1880 Location: Beautiful South
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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:35 am Post subject: |
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I'm in practically the same stage as you, but with an older van. My 85 Westy components look remarkably similar to yours with the exception of the expansion valve. The older version is very different from what you show in the pics. I need to post up some pics, as I've tried to document this process as well.
I'm hoping to reuse my A/C lines, I did the air brake dryer cocktail trick and they blew out very clean with the exception of one line which took 4-5 applications of the solution to finally blow clean. New drier and expansion valves in place, new compressor goes in this weekend.
Cleaned lots of dog hair out of the rear evaporator case and off of the fins. Obviously a previous owner had a white dog with long hair. We have black dogs, so there was variety of dog hair colors up there. _________________ 1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning. |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Yep--do mount a foam filter on the outboard side of the intake grill.
a couple of wire ties work well. _________________ T.K. |
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LynnsABCs Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2004 Posts: 95 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Worked a few hrs. Sunday afternoon. The new hose must have had a burr in the threads of the fitting for the low pressure switch so I bought a tap and die and finally got the switch installed. That meant I could stick the rear side cabinet back in, install the evaporator and the expansion valve.
The EV was tough to install. If I did it over and with the new hoses, I would install the EV to the evaporator and then to the hoses on the workbench and then thread the hoses behind the cabinet. Not a lot of room to work in place with the cabinet in.
My Behr receiver/dryer is not marked. I'm assuming the top fitting is the line coming from the evaporator and the bottom fitting goes to the front condensor. That's what the drawing in Bentley looks like. The old R/D had a straight T fitting.
I'm getting close to pulling a vacumn and charging. Just lack hooking up the R/D, changing out the shipping oil in the compressor with correct oil and installing the lines to the compressor and "Bob's your uncle". _________________ LynnsABCs
Knoxville, Tn
1990 Vanagon Westy
1961 Porsche 356 B Notchback Coupe |
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pete000 Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2004 Posts: 642 Location: Ocala FL
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Great "How To" please go into detail on how to do the suck down test and charging. I replaced my receiver dryer and expansion valve. now need to do the suck down test and charge. I am hoping not to have to do all the lines like you did, but might just have to plus the compressor if mine doesn't work.
How do you check the compressor oil level? _________________ 1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
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Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats |
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LynnsABCs Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2004 Posts: 95 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:27 am Post subject: |
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If you look at the photo of the new compressor, there is a fitting on the left center of the compressor. Remove, drain shipping oil (or old oil in an existing compressor) and refill with 8oz of Ester oil. I'm using a measured syringe and squirting it in.
If you are re-using a compressor, I would perform the flushing job using Ester oil putting it in the suction side. Spin the compressor and it pumps out the crude inside. _________________ LynnsABCs
Knoxville, Tn
1990 Vanagon Westy
1961 Porsche 356 B Notchback Coupe |
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LynnsABCs Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2004 Posts: 95 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Managed to work on the AC tonight. I installed the new compressor last week and started to hook up the new hoses and realized I had the wrong fittings on the compressor. Called the AC guy and he deduced that I really did need a compressor with two screw ends to hook to my two hoses ends--not a GM style fitting that slides in and is held on with one bolt in the center.
They sent the correct compressor and now I get to send back the wrong one for credit. Got it hooked up tonight with 8 oz. of Ester oil in the compressor and 2 oz in the suction hose.
Ran a suction for 1 1/2 hrs. with the Harbor Freight suction pump and my Sears air compressor. Basically, hooked the low pressure gauge line to the suction side and the high pressure gauge line to the high side. Opened both gauge valves and had the center hose hooked to the suction device and it is hooked to the air compressor.
I have 25 hgs. of suction showing on my low pressure gauge. A check in the morning to see if there is a drop of pressure. I can't charge the system until sometime next week as I'm gone all weekend . . . but I'm getting closer. _________________ LynnsABCs
Knoxville, Tn
1990 Vanagon Westy
1961 Porsche 356 B Notchback Coupe |
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