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duderanchero Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2008 Posts: 166 Location: el paso, tx
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Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject: Is this engine done? |
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I noticed a very slight coolant leak and went to inspect. Found green liquid beading underneath passenger side and removed cover from bottom of engine. The metal along the seam (pictured--the line that the green liquid is running across) is soft and could be pulled off in chunks if I tried. It's not bad all the way along the seam, just towards the front, and it's a relatively narrow (<1 cm) patch of corroded metal. Can this damage be staved off with JB Weld or some other trick? Gosh, I sure hope so.
Thanks again,
James |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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JB Weld is like a finger in a dike.
It's only time. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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syncrodoka Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005 Posts: 11998 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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That's your head gasket. Do a search, it's a popular subject. |
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duderanchero Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2008 Posts: 166 Location: el paso, tx
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Well, time is the material from which I create all experience, so I'll give ol' JB a shot. The best anything can give me is time, and the finger in the bleep's just icing on the cake.
I was wondering if that wasn't the notorious head gasket I'd heard so much about. I'm learning as I go.
Thanks,
James |
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PDXWesty Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006 Posts: 6235 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Your head gaskets need to be replaced. JB weld won't do anything for that. _________________ 89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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Captain Pike Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003 Posts: 3328 Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Once the heads are off then the JB Weld discussion begins.
We will have a "pitty" party for you. _________________ If You Build It______It Will Run
1959 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
.....................All Current....................... |
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tpassat Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2006 Posts: 6 Location: FL panhandle
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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syncrodoka wrote: |
That's your head gasket. Do a search, it's a popular subject. |
I agree, That's your head gasket. I am in the process of doing the head gasket repair. Your's is the type that leaks past the head seal. In the replacement kit those will be the big black ones. Mine has the leak on the cylinder..bypassing antifreeze into the cylinder. You'll find your heads pitted and allowing the antifreeze to leak on the ground. You may be able to patch the head with JB weld. You have to get them off to do that. It hasn't been too bad so far. I'm going to pull the cylinders and replace the rings. Good Luck with your new project. |
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shadetreemech Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2005 Posts: 777 Location: Claremont, CA
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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dude,
Check out this link pertaining to Vanagon's ubiquitous head gasket problem:
http://vanagon.com/
Click on Problems, click on Head Gasket.
You can replace head gaskets without dropping the engine. You cannot fix a leaky head gasket with JB Weld. As advised do a "Search" and you'll find a wealth of knowledge.
Good luck with that.
_________________ '84 GL 1.9
'01 Volvo V70 T5
'88 Westy - "MZDRTHY" |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50261
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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How many miles are on your engine? If your engine is a 2.1 and the mileage is in the 140-180,000 range, you might as well plan on a complete overhaul as your rod bolts will soon be letting go. |
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duderanchero Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2008 Posts: 166 Location: el paso, tx
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Now, what I thought was corroded metal was actually the loose rubber seal coated with particulate matter and grease, which I cleaned up with some 91% isopropyl. The coolant runs along the seal, so I assume it's weeping from there, though I really can't be sure. My daily coolant loss is much too slight to measure.
Yes, this engine's getting up there in miles, so I'm not quite sure what I'll do. Sucks to be in El Paso--not many Subarus, living or dead.
I'm more than a little confused as to what's going on inside the engine. Are my heads likely pitted, or is the gasket faulty, or both?
On the plus side, my head's all shiny now.
James |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16474 Location: Brookeville, MD
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kshbaja Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2008 Posts: 476 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:32 am Post subject: |
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The only way to resolve this problem for the long term (I almost said permanently) is to buy and install new heads. Yes, its tough to accept this, seeing they will set you back $1k for the heads alone. Anything short of this will only be a patch and you will have another headache in the near future. Even buying reman'd heads is a crap shoot. When you factor in the time it takes to remove/install a set of heads, as soon as you have to do it a 2nd time you lost any savings you might have gained by going for a cheap fix.
However, if time is plentiful and you enjoy the work, go for it! _________________ 1986 Westfalia |
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tschroeder0 Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2008 Posts: 2096 Location: Boulder CO
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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:57 am Post subject: |
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If your engine is up there in miles as you said, but is running well otherwise, my advice is do nothing.
My 1.9 leaked small amounts of coolant from the head the entire time I owned it. I finally replaced it with a 2.1 that had very low miles, but yes, started weeping a small amount shortly after I installed it.
I've put 50,000 miles on it since I discovered it. I have a habit of jumping under every van I see to check out if they weep coolant. I can tell you that of every van I've check on the Boulder/denver area I've only found one that didn't.
I will probably get an earful for this but I think everyone worries about this waaay too much, fix it if you want but otherwise I would drive it and not worry...like I've been doing for a long time, when you have the $ do swap or get a rebuilt wbx'r. Just my 2cents. Todd |
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duderanchero Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2008 Posts: 166 Location: el paso, tx
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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Time is plentiful, but cash is scarce. Replacing the heads would have to wait a couple months. If the engine's approaching its breaking point, I don't know that I want to invest so much just to see another major issue pop up 20K down the road. I was actually kind of excited about the project till I started looking for parts.
Todd, I may indeed be leaning in the direction of no-action. Funny mental picture, you dropping down below the rear bumper of every van you come across to check for the weep.
I'm tempted (oh, I know it's bad) to pour in some Subie additive. The idea makes me nauseous. I've read horror stories about Bars, and I've heard the Subie stuff is pretty much the same. But at $2 vs. $1K+, it's a mighty cheap fix. Unless that $2 foams up and consumes my engine whole.
Here's where having lots of money regains its allure. Resist the beast!
Thanks for all the advice thus far,
James |
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jdrudge Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2009 Posts: 21 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I tried the Bars Head Stop Leak- it worked for about 2 days (was about $30 for a small bottle)
Ended up pulling the heads to change the gasket and found that at some point the end of a plug had lodged into a piston and wore a deep groove in a cylinder wall.
The Bars made a heck of mess to flush out once this was going back together- I believe that the previous owner had dumped his fair share of this stuff in as well. Its like thick mud when you're trying to get it out.
Josh Drudge
1990 Vanagon
1974 VW Thing |
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duderanchero Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2008 Posts: 166 Location: el paso, tx
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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, by all accounts, Bars is the absolute last resort. I had wondered if the Subaru additive was any better, given that it is what Subie prescribes to protect its poorly designed heads. And it's required to keep the vehicle under warranty. What a scam--they make a faulty product, then force their customers to jerry-rig it. |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10067 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:36 am Post subject: |
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I think the Suby additive (which is just an English product, relabelled; can't remember the name) is pretty safe to use. I used two bottles of it awhile back and it had no negative effects on the cooling system as a whole. Also, when I got it, the Suby dealership parts counter was handing them out for free. Even so, I think the retail cost was less than $2 each (you need two to treat the double-volume of the wbx system).
That said, your leaks look to me to be past the point where such treatments might help, but you never know. I wouldn't be afraid of trying the Suby stuff, though. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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PDXWesty Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006 Posts: 6235 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:28 am Post subject: |
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I guess for me, if I had the time, was short on funds and time didn't matter, I would replace the head gaskets and see how far it got me. It's possible you could get another 20-30k miles on the engine with new gaskets alone. That would last me a couple years of driving during which time I could be saving money for more extensive repairs or a new engine. If you had the money now to afford new heads, I would consider that as well. You can always transfer them to the next engine and your money wouldn't be wasted. _________________ 89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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populuxe59 Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2007 Posts: 87 Location: Green Bay
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't catch the year. I'd keep an eye on it, wouldn't make any cross country trips and add a $4 bottle of bars leaks every fall--if it's bothering you.
I had same seepage 8 years ago with my 90. I bought a new engine (you could get them back then) and never installed it. I'm at 195,000 miles on the original heads. Any damage is done. Ride it out. I've been doing it for 60,000 miles. Still going.... Many are not so lucky.
you can have my dirty, leaking water boxer when you pry it out of my cold dead Vanagon.
Good Luck,
Chris C |
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AtlasShrugged Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008 Posts: 1605 Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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PDXWesty wrote: |
I guess for me, if I had the time, was short on funds and time didn't matter, I would replace the head gaskets and see how far it got me. It's possible you could get another 20-30k miles on the engine with new gaskets alone. That would last me a couple years of driving during which time I could be saving money for more extensive repairs or a new engine. If you had the money now to afford new heads, I would consider that as well. You can always transfer them to the next engine and your money wouldn't be wasted. |
Put two bottles of the Subaru conditioner in there and drive. You have nothing to lose and if it fails to work, the Subaru conditioner won't clog up your system like Bars leak. Easy to remove with a coolant flush. |
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