Counterweighted cranks |
NO stock is fine for 5000 rpm |
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21% |
[ 7 ] |
YES Always go counterweighted |
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78% |
[ 25 ] |
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Total Votes : 32 |
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hendersoned Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007 Posts: 80 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject: stock vs welded counterweighted crank |
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What is the safe rpm limit of a stock cam for OCCASIONAL higher rpm use IE in an off road play car, mild cam and 2 barrel single carb, 1835 cc or 1915 cc. Shooting for 90 hp or so, driven 3000 miles a year, NOT my dailey driver. Do I need a counterweighted crank for 5000 rpm. I'm not drag racing it and am looking to build a motor that makes power from 1500 to 5000 and don't want to waste the $$ if I don't need the counterweighted crank.
If I go longer stroke then fur sure it will be counterweighted... |
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miniman82 Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005 Posts: 9515 Location: Southern Maryland
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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I've taken my totally stock 1600 to 5500 on many occasions, never did it any harm that could tell. Trouble is crank failure are almost always fatigue related failures, so you'll NEVER know something's wrong till it snaps... _________________ Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
Glenn wrote: |
satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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stock balanced 1600 with dual carbs, 1980's. used to drive 5500 RPM three hours at a time back and forth to Lake Havasu from LA. Never had an oil or bearing issue.
IMHO just make sure you have a good align bore, case savers or better and the entire engine is balanced by a professional racing shop. If you don't plan to drag it then you won't see the kinds of forces that will snap it. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76907 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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SGKent wrote: |
used to drive 5500 RPM three hours at a time back |
5500rpm for 3 hours???? _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Endicott jb Bondo King
Joined: February 17, 2008 Posts: 1902 Location: Havre, MT
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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The major issue with turning a non counterweighted crank is it can warp the case around the case, leading to oil spewing from behind the pulley. I will almost never turn my engine past 4500. And that is with a counterweighted crank. _________________ Josh
OORAH!!
1965 vw beetle(Mayble)
1968 vw beetle(Caroline)
1974 VW Panel Bus
2003 Dodge 2500 5.9 Cummins(Katey)
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(0\_!_/0)
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Don't drink and post
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg353/endicott_jb/IMG_20110113_085237.jpg
When life throws you curveballs switch to boomerangs. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
5500rpm for 3 hours???? |
yes - 80 - 90 mph 71 deluxe stock trans with duals a cam and a well built 1600 engine. Running between LA and Havasu. Boring long drive. I pulled studs, cracked rear of cases, wore shims through crank to dowells, cracked heads but never had a single issue with crank,rods, pistons or valves. I was building water cooled racing engines in those days that held together for 250 - 350 miles at close to 10,000 RPM. Some people we knew were getting 14,000 RPM out of motorcycle engines back then. Today I've read that a formula one cars go up to 20,000 rpm at times. My heads were ported by the same guy who built engines for Al Unser Jr. and some Cosworth engines for Indy. Also helps he was a Super Vee winner several years in a row. I worked in his shop boring blocks, resizing rods, align boring and rebuilding engines, decking, blue printing engines etc. All my machine work came free.
Glenn - you have to stop doubting me so much. It is downright annoying. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Type 5 Joe Banned
Joined: January 18, 2003 Posts: 1795 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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So you are saying 5500 RPM for 3 hours?
With a stock crankshaft?
Built by YOU?
C'mon you must be kidding....
- Just messing with you. _________________ If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...
I don't use the P.M. service on here. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76907 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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SGKent wrote: |
Glenn - you have to stop doubting me so much. It is downright annoying. |
Sorry, but when you say things that don't make sense, I just have to point it out.
5500rpm for 3 hours with a Type 1 engine ... has anyone else done that?
Anyone? _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Hotrodvw Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004 Posts: 6327 Location: Orygun
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Wow... Might want to install a tach. I don't think that calculates out right. I'm barely at 4500 at 90. _________________ '67 Sunroof
Eric
78x94 with IDA's....oober fun
Horsepower is an addiction........Addictions cost
lots of money!
Hose & Fittings
Last edited by Hotrodvw on Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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gt1953 Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13848 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Go with the counter weight it will be so much smoother. Trust us who have them. Enuf said. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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hendersoned Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007 Posts: 80 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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if you have ever seen a class one-1600 go by a full chat they run 400 to 500 miles (up to 1000 in baja) at warp speed! but I'm not interested in a 1600 race motor (12:1 compression, 90 hp the hard way) |
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Jimmy111 Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 2643 Location: Wyoming
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Hotrodvw wrote: |
Wow... Might want to install a tach. I don't think that calculates out right. I'm barely at 4500 at 90. |
The drive from LA to vegas is all uphill. For a lot of it a stock bug needs 3rd gear at WOT. I used to drive it many times and the motor does scream. Couldnt tell you the RPM but it is up there.
Fot the typical VW owner these days I would say a CW crank is a good Idea. We all have lead feet... |
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sturgeongeneral Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2005 Posts: 2460 Location: Sacramento, California
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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For lonevity and piece of mind, counterwieghted AND BALANCED! For a little bit more money, just pay it. In the long run it is definetely worth it! _________________ Street legal fiberglass rocket ship
2005 Lotus Elise supercharged
1974 Chevy Corvette
My fiberglass car collection!
In honor of bowtie56jw:Another victim of the nasty "C" Praying for ya Jeff!
My exwife said if I towed home one more bug she would leave me. You know, every once in a while I miss her |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5292 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:23 am Post subject: |
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I vote for CW I ran a 1/2 1600 Buggy in SCORE events my rear tires were off the ground alot =5k+rpms That was 30+ yrs ago and I still have the motor It's in my daily driver _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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veedubcrazy Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2005 Posts: 2130 Location: La Porte, Tx.
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:30 am Post subject: |
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C/W crank. _________________ 1967 Deluxe Sedan |
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The Noof Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 4346
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:49 am Post subject: |
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I think this pole is retarded.IF you're building an air cooled VW engine of any sort, for any purpose, 1600cc or larger,why would you even consider a non-counterwieghted,balanced engine? |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76907 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:51 am Post subject: |
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The Noof wrote: |
a non-counterwieghted,balanced engine? |
Can you balance a non-CW crank? _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Hotrodvw Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004 Posts: 6327 Location: Orygun
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:06 am Post subject: |
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It all depends on what your tolerances are..... How close is acceptable, etc.. You can balance anything, with lots of work. _________________ '67 Sunroof
Eric
78x94 with IDA's....oober fun
Horsepower is an addiction........Addictions cost
lots of money!
Hose & Fittings |
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melville Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2006 Posts: 1245 Location: Just Outside the Redwood Curtain
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Hotrodvw wrote: |
Wow... Might want to install a tach. I don't think that calculates out right. I'm barely at 4500 at 90. |
SGKent was talking about a Bus. I've got probably the same gearing in my Westy, and I get 5K at 80. I don't do 90 in a Bus.
On the subject:
SGKent wrote: |
I pulled studs, cracked rear of cases, wore shims through crank to dowells, cracked heads but never had a single issue with crank,rods, pistons or valves. |
Sounds like he had some case problems, which I understand is the main reason for a CW crank in a mag cased T1.
Any T1 I build that is not absolutely stock will have a CW crank. It's only a few bucks more. _________________ 2000 M Roadster
79 R100RS
78 R100/7
75 R75/6
65 Standard Micro
57 Sedan |
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The Noof Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 4346
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Glenn wrote: |
The Noof wrote: |
a non-counterwieghted,balanced engine? |
Can you balance a non-CW crank? |
Yes Glenn,you can:Piston/rods/pins/clips/ are wieghed and replicated by bob wieghts.Bob wieghts are attatched to the rod throws,than balanced. |
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