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joetiger 
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 5078
Location: denver
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 Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:42 am Post subject: Ronal R9's on Ebay |
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My favorite wheels ever, they always appear when I don't have the disposable income to acquire them.
I'd still like them to go to a Vanagon owner, though:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...AUS%3A1123
These aren't mine, but they're awesome and belong on a Vanagon.
_________________
Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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rolfsky
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2006
Posts: 106
Location: PDX-patriate, living in NorCal
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:26 am Post subject: |
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ET 23, isn't that a bit low?
Have you ever run these wheels on a Vanagon?
Still though... $200 + 99 shipping is currently a steal!
_________________
'85 Merian brown Vanagon Westfalia |
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hiram6
Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2006
Posts: 1880
Location: Beautiful South
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Hmm, I know where there is a wrecked Mercedes wagon sporting a set of these, although chromed.
Might check and see if he is willing to sell the wheels.
_________________
1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning. |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| rolfsky wrote: |
ET 23, isn't that a bit low?
Have you ever run these wheels on a Vanagon?
Still though... $200 + 99 shipping is currently a steal! |
I have these rims on my Vanagon. The 23mm offset is actually perfect for a 7" wide rim on a Vanagon. The stance looks very sporty, and there are no rubbing issues and the steering feel is not adversely affected. These wheels have the correct 66.5mm center bore for a Vanagon, do not need spacers, and can use the standard Vanagon alloy lug nuts. If you don't like the Mercedes stars on the center caps, though, you're out of luck. The Ronal center caps for these are all but impossible to find these days.
Highly recommended!
David
[/img] |
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rolfsky
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2006
Posts: 106
Location: PDX-patriate, living in NorCal
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| D Clymer wrote: |
| rolfsky wrote: |
ET 23, isn't that a bit low?
Have you ever run these wheels on a Vanagon?
Still though... $200 + 99 shipping is currently a steal! |
I have these rims on my Vanagon. The 23mm offset is actually perfect for a 7" wide rim on a Vanagon. The stance looks very sporty, and there are no rubbing issues and the steering feel is not adversely affected.
Highly recommended!
David
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Ah, excellent information. Do you know what size tires you are running?
_________________
'85 Merian brown Vanagon Westfalia |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| rolfsky wrote: |
| D Clymer wrote: |
| rolfsky wrote: |
ET 23, isn't that a bit low?
Have you ever run these wheels on a Vanagon?
Still though... $200 + 99 shipping is currently a steal! |
I have these rims on my Vanagon. The 23mm offset is actually perfect for a 7" wide rim on a Vanagon. The stance looks very sporty, and there are no rubbing issues and the steering feel is not adversely affected.
Highly recommended!
David
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Ah, excellent information. Do you know what size tires you are running? |
I chose to use 215/60/15 Bridgestone RE960 tires. It's a good size for these vans, and at 25.16" for overall rolling diameter it's very close to the stock 25.3". The improvement in crosswind stability, steering feel, and cornering grip is all pretty impressive. The ride quality is as good as stock too.
David |
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rolfsky
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2006
Posts: 106
Location: PDX-patriate, living in NorCal
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| D Clymer wrote: |
I have these rims on my Vanagon. The 23mm offset is actually perfect for a 7" wide rim on a Vanagon. The stance looks very sporty, and there are no rubbing issues and the steering feel is not adversely affected.
Highly recommended!
I chose to use 215/60/15 Bridgestone RE960 tires. It's a good size for these vans, and at 25.16" for overall rolling diameter it's very close to the stock 25.3". The improvement in crosswind stability, steering feel, and cornering grip is all pretty impressive. The ride quality is as good as stock too.
David |
If I'd been paying a little more attention, I would have realized that the wheels offered by Van Cafe are ET 23 and 25, and make no mention of spacers. Knowing that this combo works opens up my options. 
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'85 Merian brown Vanagon Westfalia |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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I have numerous sets of this wheel.
ET23 is perfect for a Syncro van stock height or lifted.
I run 215/75/15 BFG Mud Terrain tires.
Best looking alloy IMHO.
dylan |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5390
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| D Clymer wrote: |
| The 23mm offset is actually perfect for a 7" wide rim on a Vanagon. The stance looks very sporty, and there are no rubbing issues and the steering feel is not adversely affected. |
Far be it from me to tell someone what they can or cannot do with their van, but respectfully David, I do take a slight issue with the statement that a ET23 is "ideal".
While the ET23 will bolt on to the van, a wheel with less offset has some benefits which would make it a better choice in my opinion. One is that they do not stick so far out of the front fender wells (keeps the sides of the van cleaner, no/less rubbing when lowering or using larger tires, etc.). Another is that you can feel the difference in the steering effort on a non-power steering van, so there is some effect to having an offset that pushes the wheel out beyond what the suspension/steering likes to see as far as scrub radius, even if you can't feel it on a power steering van.
With an offset closer to 30mm on a 16x7 wheel, there is still LOTS of clearance to the suspension when using a tire up to a 225, the steering is lighter on a non-power steering van and the wheels/tires stay tucked into the fender opening better. So the question is, if there are no downsides to a 7" wide ET30 wheel when compared to a 7" wide ET23 wheel (other than availability), shouldn't that be the goal...to get as close to a 30mm offset as possible whenever possible? If so, then the ET23 would be a compromise made of convenience which would mean that while it may be acceptable to some, that does not make it ideal on every front.
Anyway, that's just my perspective and preference.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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werksberg
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2005
Posts: 2151
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| D Clymer wrote: |
These wheels have the correct 66.5mm center bore for a Vanagon, do not need spacers, and can use the standard Vanagon alloy lug nuts. If you don't like the Mercedes stars on the center caps, though, you're out of luck. The Ronal center caps for these are all but impossible to find these days.David
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David, these Wolfsburg alloy center caps fit from 2 9/16" (around 67 mm) to 3" center bores....with inside to dust cap / axle end clearance of 3/4". Think they might work on those Ronals?
_________________
Werksberg Products....Products that work!
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| loogy wrote: |
Far be it from me to tell someone what they can or cannot do with their van, but respectfully David, I do take a slight issue with the statement that a ET23 is "ideal".
While the ET23 will bolt on to the van, a wheel with less offset has some benefits which would make it a better choice in my opinion. One is that they do not stick so far out of the front fender wells (keeps the sides of the van cleaner, no/less rubbing when lowering or using larger tires, etc.). Another is that you can feel the difference in the steering effort on a non-power steering van, so there is some effect to having an offset that pushes the wheel out beyond what the suspension/steering likes to see as far as scrub radius, even if you can't feel it on a power steering van.
With an offset closer to 30mm on a 16x7 wheel, there is still LOTS of clearance to the suspension when using a tire up to a 225, the steering is lighter on a non-power steering van and the wheels/tires stay tucked into the fender opening better. So the question is, if there are no downsides to a 7" wide ET30 wheel when compared to a 7" wide ET23 wheel (other than availability), shouldn't that be the goal...to get as close to a 30mm offset as possible whenever possible? If so, then the ET23 would be a compromise made of convenience which would mean that while it may be acceptable to some, that does not make it ideal on every front.
Anyway, that's just my perspective and preference. |
Hey Chris. First of all, let me say that my first car - an 84 VW Scirocco drove very poorly with 15x7 wheels on a 28mm offset. It didn't just track ruts on the highway, it also pulled strongly towards the curb when braking on cambered roads. So I definitely know what you're talking about regarding cancelling out the negative roll radius that's engineered into the steering geometry.
Interestingly, this fitment on the Vanagon does not have that effect on the steering. It tracks flawlessly on the freeway, and the steering wheel does not get pulled to the side in any situation. The only difference in steering feel I have noted is that coming out of a tight turn, the steering wheel doesn't automatically self-center as enthusiastically as with the higher offset stock wheels. It still self-centers, just not as quickly. I agree with you about manual steering vans. It would increase the steering effort, although to what extent I'm not sure. I've never had these wheels on an earlier van.
My goal with custom wheel fitments has always been to provide as much "stance" as possible for a sporty look without adversely affecting the directional stability of the steering. To me it's a two way compromise. So when I threw out the term "ideal" I was thinking about the achievement of a sporty stance without degrading the steering feel. This fitment definitely accomplishes that goal.
Incidentally, I once fitted 16x7.5 Audi A4 replicas on a Vanagon using 15mm spacers. With spacers the overall offset was 27mm. I basically went for the most positive offset I could get without touching the upper wishbone. That van actually tracks ruts moderately on the freeway. It runs 235/45/17, though, so I've kind of concluded that with tires that wide you're going to get that behavior no matter what. Any thoughts on that?
BTW, did you ever get ahold of that 1.8T?
David |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12006
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| werksberg- are those caps the run of the mill 5 spoke empi repops or something special? |
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werksberg
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2005
Posts: 2151
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Empi parts.....?
You mean Empty pockets: the China copier of the ACVW world as they don't have anyone smart enough to think for themselves of new products? 
Repops of what? These are the Original deal. 
_________________
Werksberg Products....Products that work!
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5390
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| D Clymer wrote: |
| loogy wrote: |
Far be it from me to tell someone what they can or cannot do with their van, but respectfully David, I do take a slight issue with the statement that a ET23 is "ideal".
While the ET23 will bolt on to the van, a wheel with less offset has some benefits which would make it a better choice in my opinion. One is that they do not stick so far out of the front fender wells (keeps the sides of the van cleaner, no/less rubbing when lowering or using larger tires, etc.). Another is that you can feel the difference in the steering effort on a non-power steering van, so there is some effect to having an offset that pushes the wheel out beyond what the suspension/steering likes to see as far as scrub radius, even if you can't feel it on a power steering van.
With an offset closer to 30mm on a 16x7 wheel, there is still LOTS of clearance to the suspension when using a tire up to a 225, the steering is lighter on a non-power steering van and the wheels/tires stay tucked into the fender opening better. So the question is, if there are no downsides to a 7" wide ET30 wheel when compared to a 7" wide ET23 wheel (other than availability), shouldn't that be the goal...to get as close to a 30mm offset as possible whenever possible? If so, then the ET23 would be a compromise made of convenience which would mean that while it may be acceptable to some, that does not make it ideal on every front.
Anyway, that's just my perspective and preference. |
Hey Chris. First of all, let me say that my first car - an 84 VW Scirocco drove very poorly with 15x7 wheels on a 28mm offset. It didn't just track ruts on the highway, it also pulled strongly towards the curb when braking on cambered roads. So I definitely know what you're talking about regarding cancelling out the negative roll radius that's engineered into the steering geometry.
Interestingly, this fitment on the Vanagon does not have that effect on the steering. It tracks flawlessly on the freeway, and the steering wheel does not get pulled to the side in any situation. The only difference in steering feel I have noted is that coming out of a tight turn, the steering wheel doesn't automatically self-center as enthusiastically as with the higher offset stock wheels. It still self-centers, just not as quickly. I agree with you about manual steering vans. It would increase the steering effort, although to what extent I'm not sure. I've never had these wheels on an earlier van.
My goal with custom wheel fitments has always been to provide as much "stance" as possible for a sporty look without adversely affecting the directional stability of the steering. To me it's a two way compromise. So when I threw out the term "ideal" I was thinking about the achievement of a sporty stance without degrading the steering feel. This fitment definitely accomplishes that goal.
Incidentally, I once fitted 16x7.5 Audi A4 replicas on a Vanagon using 15mm spacers. With spacers the overall offset was 27mm. I basically went for the most positive offset I could get without touching the upper wishbone. That van actually tracks ruts moderately on the freeway. It runs 235/45/17, though, so I've kind of concluded that with tires that wide you're going to get that behavior no matter what. Any thoughts on that?
BTW, did you ever get ahold of that 1.8T?
David |
David, Yes, I completely agree with everything that you say. I re-read what I wrote above, and it sounds a little...pompous(?), it wasn't meant to sound that way.
While I used your words to convey the message, it was actually directed at anyone who is considering wheels on a Vanagon. Ideal means many things to many people and if stance is your main goal, then yes, you are going to have to make some compromises. However, if you are concerned about getting the best fitment for the van at a minimum of compromises (like I feel might be Rolfsky's goal), then shooting for a 30mm offset would be a better choice in my opinion. All this is assuming that you have the choice of course.
As far as the 235 tire causing the van to track the ruts, absolutely! And it doesn't necessarily have to do with the tires width, although the wider the tire, usually the worse the problem.
I had a set of 225/40R18s on my old BBS on the blue/white van. I can't remember the brand name, but the van was downright scary to drive down I5 in the truck ruts. I felt like a jerk, but I would literally be forced to drive in the left lane when I encountered a set of bad ruts. When those tires wore out, I switched brands and the problem instantly was reduced by probably 85%. The van was so much more pleasurable to drive. Now that I have switched to the 19" Porsche wheels, there is almost zero tracking issues.
Yes, I have the wrecked AUDI parked at my house. I will update the "1.8T details" thread instead of muddying up this one.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| loogy wrote: |
David, Yes, I completely agree with everything that you say. I re-read what I wrote above, and it sounds a little...pompous(?), it wasn't meant to sound that way.
While I used your words to convey the message, it was actually directed at anyone who is considering wheels on a Vanagon. Ideal means many things to many people and if stance is your main goal, then yes, you are going to have to make some compromises. However, if you are concerned about getting the best fitment for the van at a minimum of compromises (like I feel might be Rolfsky's goal), then shooting for a 30mm offset would be a better choice in my opinion. All this is assuming that you have the choice of course.
As far as the 235 tire causing the van to track the ruts, absolutely! And it doesn't necessarily have to do with the tires width, although the wider the tire, usually the worse the problem.
I had a set of 225/40R18s on my old BBS on the blue/white van. I can't remember the brand name, but the van was downright scary to drive down I5 in the truck ruts. I felt like a jerk, but I would literally be forced to drive in the left lane when I encountered a set of bad ruts. When those tires wore out, I switched brands and the problem instantly was reduced by probably 85%. The van was so much more pleasurable to drive. Now that I have switched to the 19" Porsche wheels, there is almost zero tracking issues.
Yes, I have the wrecked AUDI parked at my house. I will update the "1.8T details" thread instead of muddying up this one. |
No worries, Chris. I wasn't taken aback by anything in your original post. It's actually nice to have a chance to correspond with someone elso who speaks the same language regarding wheels and suspension. BTW, what width and offset are you running with those Porsche 997 wheels? Overall, how do the 19s feel? I'm betting impact harshness isn't one of their strong suits. They sure look great, though.
David |
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rolfsky
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2006
Posts: 106
Location: PDX-patriate, living in NorCal
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| loogy wrote: |
| D Clymer wrote: |
| loogy wrote: |
So the question is, if there are no downsides to a 7" wide ET30 wheel when compared to a 7" wide ET23 wheel (other than availability), shouldn't that be the goal...to get as close to a 30mm offset as possible whenever possible? If so, then the ET23 would be a compromise made of convenience which would mean that while it may be acceptable to some, that does not make it ideal on every front.
Anyway, that's just my perspective and preference.
|
My goal with custom wheel fitments has always been to provide as much "stance" as possible for a sporty look without adversely affecting the directional stability of the steering. To me it's a two way compromise. So when I threw out the term "ideal" I was thinking about the achievement of a sporty stance without degrading the steering feel. This fitment definitely accomplishes that goal.
David |
However, if you are concerned about getting the best fitment for the van at a minimum of compromises (like I feel might be Rolfsky's goal), then shooting for a 30mm offset would be a better choice in my opinion. All this is assuming that you have the choice of course.
|
Lest anyone need to speculate more about my objectives... I'm looking for a great fitment with the least amount of compromises. I certainly am very interested in both the mechanics and theory of it all, but also "yeah, this works too". I think Loogy is correct in saying that given the option of the ET23 vs. the ET30, I'd pick the ET30.
That being said, I'm glad to know that if I want to, I could buy some ET23s and run them without having made a "bad" choice if no good ET30's are around. (Back to the OP, those Ronals actually look pretty nice.)
Barring a breakthrough with importing some ET30's which I'm currently working on, my current front-runner is these E500 replicas. No word back from DiscountTireDirect yet on centerbore or load rating.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4-NEW-15x7-5x112-Re...ccessories
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'85 Merian brown Vanagon Westfalia |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| werksberg wrote: |
| D Clymer wrote: |
These wheels have the correct 66.5mm center bore for a Vanagon, do not need spacers, and can use the standard Vanagon alloy lug nuts. If you don't like the Mercedes stars on the center caps, though, you're out of luck. The Ronal center caps for these are all but impossible to find these days.David
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David, these Wolfsburg alloy center caps fit from 2 9/16" (around 67 mm) to 3" center bores....with inside to dust cap / axle end clearance of 3/4". Think they might work on those Ronals?
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Sorry to take so long getting back to you on this, Werksberg. I measured the diameter of the flange on the back side of a stock center cap and it measures 75mm. So it looks like those Wolfsburg center caps are the right diameter. How do they attach to the rim? Do they have set screws? Also, are they available?
David |
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mblotz
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 296
Location: D-town, at base of the rocky's
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| who knows if these wheels will fit with a big brake kit? I've always liked the look of these wheels, but ALAS, auction quickly exceeded my maximum in the last 2 minutes |
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werksberg
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2005
Posts: 2151
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| D Clymer wrote: |
| werksberg wrote: |
| D Clymer wrote: |
These wheels have the correct 66.5mm center bore for a Vanagon, do not need spacers, and can use the standard Vanagon alloy lug nuts. If you don't like the Mercedes stars on the center caps, though, you're out of luck. The Ronal center caps for these are all but impossible to find these days.David
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David, these Wolfsburg alloy center caps fit from 2 9/16" (around 67 mm) to 3" center bores....with inside to dust cap / axle end clearance of 3/4". Think they might work on those Ronals?
|
Sorry to take so long getting back to you on this, Werksberg. I measured the diameter of the flange on the back side of a stock center cap and it measures 75mm. So it looks like those Wolfsburg center caps are the right diameter. How do they attach to the rim? Do they have set screws? Also, are they available?
David |
Yes, 3x set screws. They were made to fit the Fuchs 14" OEM rim to most any 5 lug aftermarket rims but adjusting the set screws. If you are in a bad area....then indent a hole in the center bore for the set screws to dig in deeper.
They should be listed in the classified section under general parts...
Or if not, IM me and I'll get some dealer listings for you.
_________________
Werksberg Products....Products that work!
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joetiger
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 5078
Location: denver
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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I finally got them on and took it out for a ride this morning.
I've been looking for these FOREVER. 7x15 ET23 on Michelin Agilis 205/65 15's. I considered going back to silver, but the gray was done so well that I don't think there's a need to. They ride very, very well, the tires are quiet and smooth; I love it when possibly overblown expectations are actually met!
I think they dramatically change the look of my Vanagon. My brother-in-law walked up and said, "It's starting to look like an Eastern European military vehicle."
I think I blushed a bit. Best compliment ever.
(apologies for the crappy phone pics)
Thanks Matt!!!!
_________________
Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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