New '71 Bus owner, need restoration advice

Hoodooman

Hey guys,

I have a '71 Type II (Daphne) that I bought on ebay in March. I'm just now finding the time to start the restoration. Trouble is, I have NO IDEA what I'm doing!

Daphne's history and condition is as follows:

Four years ago, she was driven from Baltimore to Amarillo, where she sat until March. I bought her and trailered her up here to St. Louis.

The body is in good condition. There are a few dents on the front and sides, some of which are crinkled around the edges, but none are more than 1/2" deep. There are two through and through rust spots about 2"x2" on the rear wheel well and floor by the sliding door. The paint was applied very sloppily with a brush, and looks like crap. The weather stripping is shot. The metal sunroof is gone. Overall the body seems pretty straight.

The engine is a Mofoco 1600cc. It appears to be complete. I disassembled it and it looks, at least to my untrained eyes, brand new. It needs new gaskets, and I cannot find any sort of temperature monitoring device. It has hydraulic lifters. I thinks it needs some dressing up, though.

The transmission, a 4spd man., shifts smoothly and easily, though it does feel rather imprecise and numb. I don't know if that is normal for a vehicle of this age, my only experience with a manual is with newer vehicles.

The brakes seem 100%. It has front discs and rear drums.

The steering seems fine, but the shocks look dead.

The gas tank is rusty on the inside.

The interior is completely stripped, all I have are 2 front seats and one rear bench. The dash is cracked up and pretty much trashed.

I believe all the wiring is present, but it is only partially hooked up.

So that is the status of Daphne. Right now I have $0, but I'm anticipating a budget of about 4-5 thousand dollars. I presume most of the expense will be body and interior.

Is $4-5,000 enough if I am doing most of the work myself? I only have experience doing some minor routine maintenance on motorcycles, but really want to learn more about restoration and mechanics.

Will the Mofoco engine hurt the value badly?

Where can one find a replacement sunroof?

What order do you all recommend for the restoration process. Where is the best place to start?

I'm starting my first semester of college in the spring, and I'm hoping to have it reasonably complete by the summer. Further down the road I'd like to do some suspension, engine (maybe a swap), and interior mods to make it a better tourer/off roader- not that I plan on going mudding with it or anything, I'd just like to make it more capable for getting to backwoods campsites.

Funny thing is, I never really had any interest in VWs. I was surfin eBay for motorcycle parts, and I saw this gorgeous banana yellow bus, and I was like "Damn! That's gotta be mine!". I think I'm hooked!

I realize I'm throwin a lot of questions out there all at once, but even the smallest bit of advice is greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks!!!

vdubzen · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject:

first thing is welcome to the site, now post pics!!!

4,000 to 5,000 is a fair amount of money, i just bought a 68 and so far have spent about 2200. that does include the purchase price of 500.00.

i think you will be good.
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CombatBus · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject:

pictures will help us determine repairs needed.
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maximan1 · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject:

Pics please. If the engine is an original upright Type 1, it shouldn't have hydraulic valves. To check, if it hasn't been started in a while (few days, maybe a week) try pushing the rocker arms. If they move, you've got hydraulic lifters. It sounds like you have pretty common rust spots, so shouldn't be much of a problem. Many make patch panels that you weld in.

To know if the engine is brand new, take a look at the cylinders. If they have a wear line on them from where the piston stops, then it's definitely had some use.

Temperature wise, there is a temperature sensor II (not sure if it's on earlier busses actually) on the driver's side head. It defines the mixture according to the heat of the heads, and a bad one will mimic fuel starvation. There also should be a thermostat on the right side of the engine, on the bottom. It looks like an accordion and should be completely closed. Again, that is on later type 4 engines, I'm not sure if it's the same thing on earlier.

Metal sunroof is a very very expensive thing to restore. SGKent knows his stuff about those, he will be by soon. I'm welding mine shut so I won't have to deal with the issues it brings.

Sounds like a good project, bring pics.
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Hoodooman · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject:

Thanks guys, I'll try to get some pics up.

The engine isn't a type I, it's an aftermarket Mofoco 1600cc Dual port.

Hoodooman · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:05 pm Post subject:

BTW, the sunroof isn't in need of restoration, it's completely gone... it apparently wasn't attached and bounced out somewhere between st. louis and amarillo.... some luck, huh?

maximan1 · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject:

Yes please post some pics. I'd like to see your engine. It should be a type 1, because it takes a lot of modding to put in a late bay engine into an early bay. A rebuilt type 1, but a type 1 nonetheless. Type 1 is just the kind of engine. Early bays (up to '71 in the U.S) had the type 1, late bays ('72 and later) had type 4 engines, commonly referred to as pancake engines.

Type 1

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Type 4 with carbs

Type 4 with fuel injection

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1978 Transporter, 2.0L FI

maximan1 · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:29 pm Post subject:

And trust me, if you can find sunroof parts, they aren't cheap. Good luck with that.
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norcalmike · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject:

congrats, and welcome to the wonderful world of Air Cooled VWs.
you will find alot of help here. use the search button, you will find that most questions have already been covered in depth.
Yeah, good luck on the sunroof. if it wasnt even attached, mu guess is the mechanisms are all missing and thats gonna be a challenge to find, and if you do, it wont be cheap. even if you find a donor roof for parts, you may find the parts to be broken or needing repair in the donor roof too.

Mofocos feedback is mixed. you can read his feedback here. if the motor looks new, run it. it could be a Great Motor with no issues.
i think 4-5000 is a good budget. a few thousand can easily get eaten up in body and paint alone.

good luck to you. AND POST PICS!!!!

Hoodooman · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject:

Thanks maximan!

It's definitely a type I...

Sounds like the sunroof situation will be an a very expensive pain in the ass!

maximan1 · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:50 pm Post subject:

In that case I'm fairly sure it has solid lifters. Yes the roof is an expensive pain in the ass. Definitely. That's why I'm welding a solid roof instead of my sunroof. When I'm old and rich, I might cut the solid roof off and put in another sunroof, but right now, I'm 16 and don't have a huge budget. Welding it shut is unfortunately the most logical option for me right now.
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norcalmike · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:14 pm Post subject:

Go with a west top. usually can be found cheap.

Desertbusman · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:02 am Post subject:

Welcome!
You've got the best of years to work with. Congratulations. You asked a lot of questions and you won't get answers that quick and easy.
First off, don't do anything at all mechanical to it until after you get the Bentley VW service manual. And don't even touch the engine until you get Tom Wilson's engine rebuilding book. You say you've taken the engine apart already. You should have had the Wilson book before you did that so that you could have evaluated the condition of the engine. Why did you think it has hydraulic lifters? Small chance that it does.
Rethink your term "restore". Restore it back to new original condition? Or just getting it running and patched up? And that's not restoring that's getting it patched up and running. And 4 OR 5 thousand should get you a good start. Plan on hundreds of hours of work. Again it depends on what you mean by restore. Either way, having it in shape by spring or summer might not be very realistic. Again, it depends on what you have in mind. You might be talking more in terms of at least a couple years.
Without having any experience your biggest challenge will be to not do anything to it until after you know what and how to do it. With all the mechanicals on it, it is easy to make everything worse. That sure doesn't sound like your intent. The main thing with people new to these VW's is setting clear and realistic goals on what you wish to accomplish. Have you been to VW shows and been around other busses? That really helps. And it is a fun and rewarding project to start with so have fun with it.
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[email protected] · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:05 am Post subject:

Just FYI, we have built 1000's of engines with hydraulic lifters. Since we manufacture our own using type 1 lifter bodies, there is no machining required in the case. If you would like to send me the complete engine, I would me more than happy to reassemble the engine for no charge. The only requirement would be paying for shipping and any additional parts that might be necessary. Congrats on your purchase and please pm or e-mail me direct if you would like take me up on my offer.

Marv [UK] · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:09 am Post subject:

KWZ · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:00 pm Post subject:

You're in St. Louis? Do you belong to the Missouri Micro's yet? Welcome to busdom. We would all love to meet you and talk buses sometime.

-Kent

St. Louis, MO
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peaceful warrior · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:18 pm Post subject:

BTW, having a 71 Sunroof would allow you to mount a Westfalia pop top. The opening is the same from 68-71 for a Westfalia as it is for a sunroof deluxe, not certain about 72-73. I have a rack and poptop (needs canvas) I would donate to you, if you can come get it.
I have all the brackets, etc for it. It might be cheaper to go this route then trying to find a new sunroof!
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bigbore · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject:

Hoodooman · Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:16 pm Post subject:

Kent,

Sounds good... do you all have any upcoming events I could check out?

BTW thanks for all the advice everybody!

Blaubus · Samba Member Joined: October 25, 2003 Posts: 5153

lots you can do with a bus that has no sunroof.

the campers have the zact same roof structure as the sunroof, so you could just find a junker poptop and make it a camper.

i knew a guy once who heat formed some plexiglas to conform to the roofs curvature.

you can also find a pre67 poptop that will cover just the hole. slightly more aero and much lighter.

or, make a form and do your own fiberglas fabrication. all you need is some resin, some fiberglas cloth, and some aerosol mould release.


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