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ZimZam
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Talkeetna, AK
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 Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:38 pm Post subject: How Much Paint |
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How many gallons to paint a vanagon, and what type primer do I use? Should I do the one part paint, or the base/clear coat route? I was planning on using an HVLP set up. Danke.
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'85 Cabriolet (Margo)
'87 Westy (Heidi)
'75 Porsche 911S Targa
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PDXWesty
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Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6243
Location: Portland OR
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jacob.
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2009
Posts: 802
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Another option, which looks fantastic if done right. And cheap.
http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18751
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vanagonforever
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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I rolled my Westy and I would not suggest it. While I believe it is possible to get decent finish, the amount of work involved is incredibly insane. Consider buying a cheap gun/compressor and just letting her rip before you start rolling paint on. Regardless, good paint is expensive for a reason. It seems that you get what you pay for with a paint job.
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1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia |
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240Gordy
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 2354
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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I bought one gallon of base clear from the local sherwin williams outlet, I think I got the commercial rate, altogether it cost me $230 for paint.
Unknown liters of blood, sweat and tears.
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Tencentlife said,
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Get all the body work done first. Prep for paint. Then take it to a production shop for color. That's the least expensive way. You know what you got that way.
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16501
Location: Brookeville, MD
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: How Much Paint |
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| zimzam wrote: |
| How many gallons to paint a vanagon, and what type primer do I use? Should I do the one part paint, or the base/clear coat route? I was planning on using an HVLP set up. Danke. |
Typically speaking:
3/4 gallons to paint the van, outside only and no pop top. That is 2 coat of urethane. Base and clear, well, multiply by 2. Some colour may use 1/2 gallon with the right expensive spay gun like mine, a Sata digital.
Primer, well, about 1/3 gallon to 1 gallon, it all depend how thick you need your coat.
Your primer question is not elaborate enough, you may need epoxy primer in some cases, in some other just plain primer, but and most of the time a builder primer is the one you need. You may not even need primer!!! The main reason from primer is to hide small scratch, it is NOT to blend colour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Normal primer is not even good on bear metal, for that you need something else, a Zink derivate primer.
For blending you need... well, sorry, i have no idea of the English name. But it's a paint tone that will simply match the work you did with the old paint. It's a neutral colour that match your existing colour, just a light coat.
On a budget, use urethane, BUT, you make runs and no way to sand and buff... Clear coat is nice when you have scratch, you can simply light sand and buff. Clear coat come in different quality, cheap clear coat will simply peel after a few years.
Hey, i could go on for 3 hours on the subject.
Yea yea, i know my stuff:
http://www.benplace.com/trajan.htm
Ok, want to see the pro at work, look carefully at the next picture, see the reflection of my cousin face on the van....
And no, you don't want to go there, that is a 2 step sanding process plus a 2 step polishing.
So much fun:
Link
Ben
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Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
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FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
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FNGRUVN
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2007
Posts: 2237
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:06 am Post subject: |
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Hey you missed a spot. : ) Cool video. What do you typically use for air pressure for primer, base, and clear? I noticed you had hardly any over-spray. When I did my van I was in a cloud within a few minutes. Especially with the clear coat.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin |
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ZimZam
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Talkeetna, AK
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:50 am Post subject: |
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I am planning to do the inside/outside. The van is completely stripped of its interior. Two coats of an epoxy primer that needs to cover bare metal, two coats of base color, and complete with clear coats. My questions- Much of the van is down to bare metal. I will need a zinc epoxy product? The process is prime, sand, basecoat, sand, basecoat, sand, and finally clear coating with sanding in between coats? Can you get zinc primer in a high build epoxy? So with doing the inside/outside would a gallon + a quart be enough, or will I need mas. And as for sanding in between coats, start with and end with what grit? Danke.
_________________
'85 Cabriolet (Margo)
'87 Westy (Heidi)
'75 Porsche 911S Targa
"Nobody trusts anyone, or why did they put tilt on a pinball machine.”
- Steve McQueen
"It's just metal, when rusted and dented , anything you will do will be better. Stop being afraid. What they (VW) did many year ago is not better then what you will do now." -Ben |
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| FNGRUVN wrote: |
| Hey you missed a spot. : ) Cool video. What do you typically use for air pressure for primer, base, and clear? I noticed you had hardly any over-spray. When I did my van I was in a cloud within a few minutes. Especially with the clear coat. |
Dirty risky job, clear coat it is:
With base coat i use.... 20PSI, maybe a bit more, who cares. Use what you need and feel comfortable with.
Less pressure mean you can go slower, do some small detail.
Primer need more pressure for one simple reason, it can easily make a rough coat, very rough, meaning that paint particle dry before touching the body, so to make it smooth you need speed and high pressure and be pretty close to the body. Same for clear coat.
Don't wet the floor also, humidity is a killer, it make the clear coat react faster meaning it also try to dry before it hit the body. I use 35-40psi at the gun and about 65% at the regulator/dryer .
HVLP, it took me a wile to understand that. High Volume Low Pressure! You need the right compressor, hose and gun. I don't have those, well i have the gun but not the rest. Way less fume.
But with the new Canadian law coming soon, this will be thing of the pass. Water base paint is here, completely different procedure and 6000$ of investment, it's a no go for me.
Ben
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Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
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FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3341
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:28 am Post subject: |
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One thing to add, the "cloud" is flammable,try not to blow yourself up.
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FNGRUVN
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2007
Posts: 2237
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:37 am Post subject: |
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That's what my garage looked like. I vented the garage but still had a cloud. I rigged up a fan for the exhaust and put a furnace filter over the garage window for the fresh air inlet. I put a filter over the exhaust too so my neighbor's wouldn't have anything to complain about. The wife says no more painting in the garage, though. We'll see. My other van needs paint too.
Thanks for the pressure info.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin |
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FNGRUVN
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2007
Posts: 2237
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| Kaiser Soze wrote: |
| One thing to add, the "cloud" is flammable,try not to blow yourself up. |
I guess the mixture wasn't quite right for ignition.  The thought did cross my mind though.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin |
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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RCB
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2005
Posts: 4143
Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| ftp2leta wrote: |
| Kaiser Soze wrote: |
| One thing to add, the "cloud" is flammable,try not to blow yourself up. |
Yep, your fan need a sealed motor, similar to the pigpen/barn.
You need fume, just the right amount. If the fan pull too much it will dry to fast and it will even pull paint out.
Your better off outside with a nice breeze. Wet grass id perfect.
Ben |
Jeezzzz Ben, obviously you dont have a spray booth. Ive been applying chemical coatings for nearly 30 years and that looks like a pretty crummy environment in which to spray in. 
Good luck and try not to blow up the neighborhood or your poor relatives.
Open lighting like you have is a spark waiting to happen which in turn could cause a kaboom- which would lead to a bye-bye big Ben.
Dont get me started on environmental issues with your state of the art spraying facility  |
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Jeezzzz Ben, obviously you dont have a spray booth. Ive been applying chemical coatings for nearly 30 years and that looks like a pretty crummy environment in which to spray in.
Good luck and try not to blow up the neighborhood or your poor relatives.
Open lighting like you have is a spark waiting to happen which in turn could cause a kaboom- which would lead to a bye-bye big Ben.
Dont get me started on environmental issues with your state of the art spraying facility |
That is the old booth, yeap, made of tarp  , it did a fine job for years. It's better now, properly closed.
Booth don't make the job. Dust and static can be easily control with liquid mask.
I only paint 1 van per month or 2, i'm not gonna invest/built a pro paint booth.
My best show room job was done outside
Anyway, this is my last job. I had it with body work.
Ben
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2049
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Is it safe to paint with urethane using only a charcoal mask?
I was told that you couldn't use urethane in your garage without a very expensive fresh air system.... the two paint jobs that I've done I used acrylic enamel..which isn't as durable as urethane.
I would much prefer to use urethane the next time around.
I've seen different opinions across the net...
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1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia |
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ftp2leta
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 3271
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| edgood1 wrote: |
Is it safe to paint with urethane using only a charcoal mask?
I was told that you couldn't use urethane in your garage without a very expensive fresh air system.... the two paint jobs that I've done I used acrylic enamel..which isn't as durable as urethane.
I would much prefer to use urethane the next time around.
I've seen different opinions across the net... |
A 3M paint mask with replaceable cartridge is 30$ in the US.
Ben
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2049
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Hi Ben
I use the 3M 7192 respirator... the saftey sheet says its not for use with urethane paints. I assume because it doesn't absorb the harmful isocynates.... but then in other places I've read that it does absorb them up to a point..... confusing.
If its ok to do a one off urethane paint job with one, I'll take the risk... but if there is a documented danger I'll stick with the acrylic enamel and re-do the paint in 10 years.
I've heard some bad stories of urethane paint sickness.
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1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia |
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