Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Chinese Spark Plugs, Insightful
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dogpilot
Samba Member


Joined: October 03, 2005
Posts: 4205
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Dogpilot is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:46 pm    Post subject: Chinese Spark Plugs, Insightful Reply with quote

Just received an eye opening Power Point on Chinese manufactured spark plugs. Draw your own conclusion:
http://homepage.mac.com/greystoke.eng/.Public/China-SparkPlug.pps
_________________
Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G


Last edited by Dogpilot on Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tclark
Samba Member


Joined: November 21, 2005
Posts: 926

tclark is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

direct link
http://homepage.mac.com/greystoke.eng/.Public/China-SparkPlug.pps
_________________
89 Westy with TDI AHU 1.9 manual lots of mods
85 GL 1.9, auto (for sold)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Perales
Samba Member


Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 2039
Location: Montreal
Perales is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm Think
I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
I suspect much of the China import stuff is made in a similar fashion.
_________________
-- 1987 Westfalia automatic (Captain Vino)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
Californio
Samba Member


Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 999

Californio is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not only quality control, but it actually makes you appreciate OSHA...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ZimZam
Samba Member


Joined: July 21, 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Talkeetna, AK
ZimZam is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xie xie nin. You're correct this isn't the forum to bash Chinese products so I've deleted my post. Good luck with your rear axle.
_________________
'85 Cabriolet (Margo)
'87 Westy (Heidi)
'75 Porsche 911S Targa

"Nobody trusts anyone, or why did they put tilt on a pinball machine.”
- Steve McQueen
"It's just metal, when rusted and dented , anything you will do will be better. Stop being afraid. What they (VW) did many year ago is not better then what you will do now." -Ben


Last edited by ZimZam on Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
wasserbox
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2008
Posts: 531
Location: Durango, CO
wasserbox is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese Spark Plugs, Insightful Reply with quote

Dogpilot wrote:
Just received an eye opening Power Point on Chinese manufactured spark plugs. Draw your on conclusion:
http://homepage.mac.com/greystoke.eng/.Public/China-SparkPlug.pps


I'm not disagreeing, but...

How much development has there really been in Spark Plugs in the last 100 years? How refined does the manufacturing process need to be?

Not like they're microchips - which the Chinese also produce fairly successfully.

Not a whole lot to them - And those are probably the $2 plugs. $2 barely covers the cost of materials...

http://www.greenprophet.com/2009/07/14/10523/fords-laser-spark-plugs/

-->Edit <--

And how does this compare to someone rebuilding a VW Engine in their driveway? Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
beatrich
Samba Member


Joined: October 17, 2007
Posts: 148
Location: Somewhere on the road
beatrich is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like America in the 50's.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 45956

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GM probably sold them all that modern tooling just last month. Messy environment, but it really says little about the quality control. I would be worried about cut threads instead of rolled threads though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Classicvibe
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2009
Posts: 738
Location: Salt Lake City
Classicvibe is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice photos but as far as making any statement about production that is nearly useless. I have worked in China in manufacturing areas that look identical to that one (I have a feeling that line is in Guangzhou, Zhongshan) and if you think white walls and round eyes = quality production...bwa ha hahahahah!

In order to avoid a long painful conversation I offer to you the reality that economics controls quality, and vice-versa. In other words, the couple cents extra you might pay for a spark plug, may very well represent a few extra million in development on the product, regardless of where it is produced...or perhaps it just pays for a good marketing campaign. But those companies never maintain that for long. Every company in the world has the intention of putting out a quality product, and they let economics determine just how quality it will be. I get calls to work in fly over states as well as the far east, and production is always handed down as a process, developed with budgets and demographic info.

Yes, I am on a bit of a rant today because I have been reading a bit on the Samba today and have cone across waaaay too many generic valuations of Chinese production, and those statements hurt what a forum like this is out to accomplish, they are ignorant and often weird opinuendo.

Anyway, I'll cut this off and say that I have worked with top tier producers with factories that did not look any better. That is what happens when your labor force is a fraction of the cost of automation, you look at the units that fail QC and still giggle to the bank. Look around you and consider that about 80% of your world is produced under similar circumstances.

Now if you'll excuse me, I am going to order my new Chinese-made rear axle.
_________________
On a mission, the destination is just an excuse.

Syncro Solstice 2021: Synquinox...see you there!

1986.5 Wolfsburg Syncro Westfalia Poptop Weekender Transporter
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
82WestyMan
Samba Member


Joined: December 28, 2006
Posts: 1097
Location: South Carolina
82WestyMan is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just part of the result when America got sold on the Walmat mantra of "Low Prices" trump everything else
... or as the old adage goes
"You get what you pay for"

and then we wonder why and where our jobs went

I'll shut up too now
_________________
"The floggings will continue until morale improves"
"I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell" - Harry S. Truman
82 Westfalia - w/ a Raby 'Camper Special' engine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
deprivation
Samba Member


Joined: September 14, 2006
Posts: 1220
Location: Austin, Texas
deprivation is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Classicvibe wrote:
Every company in the world has the intention of putting out a quality product...

Oh, man I wish that were true! Even fifty-percent true. Hell, ten-percent true would be nice.
_________________
1986 Westy 2WD auto a.k.a. "The Old Girl"
www.kittenfart.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
populuxe59
Samba Member


Joined: February 27, 2007
Posts: 87
Location: Green Bay
populuxe59 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I'm ignorant. How is a set of $13 metric combination wrenches good? Mine snapped like peanut brittle as I was trying to show my 10 year old how to work on the Vanagon--great lesson dad. You're gonna put that unknown quality axle on your van? I work for a utility and we have numerous posters up for "impostor" rigging loops and chains made in China to look like European made tackle, complete with phony trade name. The Chinese stuff breaks when put under load. How would you like a 600 lb transformer falling on your head? Please re-educate me as to why Chinese stuff is good quality.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
wbx
Samba Member


Joined: April 11, 2005
Posts: 1254
Location: Monterey, CA
wbx is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

populuxe59 wrote:
Please re-educate me as to why Chinese stuff is good quality.


I'll reiterate one of classicvibe's points - don't overgeneralize chinese production. Not all things made in china are great, not all are crap. I've had chinese vendors very concerned about quality, and others... not so much. Quality is the responsibility of the company selling the part and it is up to them to hold the manufacturer accountable.

Economics and a general belief is disposable goods drives parts being made like junk.
_________________
'84 Westy (first owner).......but my daily driver has pedals
My "perspective" mantra:
A Volkswagen Vanagon is just a material thing,
As such, it is of the earth,
And if i need to, I can let my Van go.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
foodeater
Samba Member


Joined: July 13, 2007
Posts: 1308
Location: Newburgh, NY
foodeater is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to say that not all Chinese made products are bad. Your TV, computer, cell phone, microwave, GPS, DVD, Stereo, power tools, childrens toys, strollers...etc. are all made in in China and all work perfectly fine. Just because it has the name of an American company does not mean it was produced here (Ever notice how all of Apple's products say "Designed in California" not "Made in California" or "Made in USA"?).

On the other hand cheap Chinese tools from Wal-mart™, baby formula and pet food containing melomine, and designer knock-offs are examples of pure crap from China.

Before the Chinese it was the Japanese who were regarded as producing "low quality" products that flooded the US market.

Lets not forget that there is plenty of pure crap produced in the good ol' US of A as well. Chrysler Sebring anyone?
_________________
89 Bluestar-2.5 Subaru Powered-RIP
'84 Westy Tiico-daily driver-sold
'82 Caddy diesel-sold
'87 Vanagon Syncro-RIP
'81 diesel rabbit-sold
'82 Vanagon auto-RIP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
K58
Samba Member


Joined: July 01, 2006
Posts: 1171
Location: Santa Barbara
K58 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chinas economy will eventually make the US a 2nd world country and it'll be our fault.
Who's going to buy our crap then?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
James 93SLC
Samba Member


Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
James 93SLC is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

K58 wrote:
Chinas economy will eventually make the US a 2nd world country and it'll be our fault.
Who's going to buy our crap then?


China's economic growth cannot be sustained. They are facing social and environmental issues that are going to stall it. They are nowhere near the US GDP and subsist on an export economy. I'm not too worried, however I do try buying domestic when I can.

Vanagon related info: I'm still waiting for this *$&*#$! snow to melt so that I can work on it Shocked
_________________
-------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
-------------------------
Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
edgood1
Samba Member


Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 1946
Location: Plymouth, MA
edgood1 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

as long as there are cheap people around to buy all the poor quality chinese products they will keep making them and exporting them.

i learned a long time ago that quality tools and parts are well worth the extra price..and the products at the low end of the totem pole are not an option.
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kayakwesty
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2007
Posts: 687
Location: East Tennessee
kayakwesty is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will pipe in...

in the last month I've replaced ...at least in my eyes...major parts and they have failed.

Water pump...The German pump that was 10 years old... it was weeping...I replaced it with a Chinese waterpump...could not make the van run cool...after the install....very scary temps.

replaced it with Italian waterpump...its now fixed

CV Axles...replaced my 20 year + German axles...the replacements...Chinese...the passenger side last 50 miles...THUMP THUMP.

Finally found a axle shop that rebuilt the "new " axles...

Replaced my 20 year + German rear wheel bearings...I got Chinese bearings ...they lasted 1700 miles..WTF

I am willing to pay more for a quality part...Chinese or not...repeat QUALITY...I have not experience with Chinese parts...

its to the point I am thinking of getting rid of my Westy due to the fact I can't keep it running with swapping a bad part with a new bad part.

With VW making alot of OUR parts NLA and the ones I can get my hands on are brand new junk...there comes a time you wash your hands on it.

I would hate to be a professional mechanic with a shop...how is a customer going to respond when he or she keeps bringing their car back?
_________________
1984 Westy 2.0 Jetta ABA Motor/1.8 head converted to auto tranny, with 180,000 on body, 55K on engine and transmission

B.5.5 Passat Wagen with 30v V6-67000 Miles

DAS AUTO

CHANGE YOUR FUEL LINES!

A post without pictures is useless

http://www.kayakwesty.com

http://www.waldensridgewhitewater.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
edgood1
Samba Member


Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 1946
Location: Plymouth, MA
edgood1 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kayakwesty wrote:


its to the point I am thinking of getting rid of my Westy due to the fact I can't keep it running with swapping a bad part with a new bad part.



DON'T DO IT!

at least not for that reason!

there are quality new parts out there, we'll help you find them! In a lot of cases used original parts can be a good alternative.... just let us know what you're looking for. That's what we're all here for!
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
deprivation
Samba Member


Joined: September 14, 2006
Posts: 1220
Location: Austin, Texas
deprivation is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kayakwesty wrote:
I would hate to be a professional mechanic with a shop...how is a customer going to respond when he or she keeps bringing their car back?

And it's not just us, either. I have talked to several non-VW mechanics and parts dealers who say they are having trouble because of crappy Chinese parts.
_________________
1986 Westy 2WD auto a.k.a. "The Old Girl"
www.kittenfart.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB