'58/'59 Beetle Discussion

mattpeace · Samba Member Joined: November 09, 2005 Posts: 62

mattpeace wrote:
Unfrotunatally my 59 is a very early 59 so it has the 58 stampings on the clip as well as other 58 only items

What is your date of production?

my car was built sept 58 and had a title stating it as a 59,
also for 58 they stopped stamping the numbers on the bodyhalf way through the year. the brake fluid reservoir area is stamped differently for
58 than for 59

spectre6000 · Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:38 am Post subject:

Can you provide a photo of each style, por favor?
_________________
Jason Hopper

-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me

AlteWagen · Troll Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8326 Location: PNW

AlteWagen · Troll Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8326 Location: PNW

Form the transitional bus thread

mario_0609 · Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:43 pm Post subject:

AlteWagen · Troll Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8326 Location: PNW

janerick3 · Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:16 am Post subject:

This is an interesting thread. Only two changes were actually made at the end of July 1958; the new (1959) colors were introduced on 31 July 1958 and the "frame head was reinforced" on 1 August.

I'm guessing the 1 November 1958 "beginning" of the 1959 model year shown in PR was a corporate formality to satisfy a particular export market, other than the U.S., of a model year demarcation.
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Thanks,
Jan K.

djkeev · Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:09 am Post subject:

When you browse through the "General Modifications" pages of the PR, both Volume 1 and 2. There are many years with a later year change date, most often in October.

1 Oct. 1959 2 632 801 Start of 1960 Model
1 Oct. 1960 3 335 848 Beginning of 1961 Model Year
30 July 1962 4 846 836 Beginning of 1963 Model Year
4 764 156 (114-115) (export)
1 0ct. 1962 5 007 275 Beginning of 1963 Model Year
(Germany Only)

Once the 65 model year rolled around and the number system changed there is no longer the different dates noted for export or Germany.
3 Aug. 1964, 115 000 001 1965 Model Year
2 Aug. 1965 116 000 001 1966 model year
1 Aug. 1966 117 000 001 1967 model year

These are the only year notes, nothing before 1959, Many years not even mentioned.
By the other years failure of being mentioned, does one assume they were on schedule with the Beginning of August model year change over? Following factory policy?

Not sure where I stand on all of this, just interesting.

Dave
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Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

Trayle D. the real oggfk · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:18 am Post subject:

This is such a great topic and its nice to see all the great info being put into one place. These two years are my... Well... At least second favorite cars and Ive own lots and lots of them.

Heres a little difference between the two that hasnt been brought up yet. And anyone with a 59 and a 58 can check and see this. In the engine compartment on both sides of the engine there are two rubber drain tubes that run down the back of the fire wall from the top drip rail to the engine trays on both sides of the engine. But, on a 58 there is a small metal tube that the rubber tube mounts too on top AND bottom. And on a 59 there is only a metal tube on the top for the rubber tube to mount to and on the engine tray there is a hole for the rubber tube to go threw.

You cant tell the difference by this picture but you can see the tubes that are only present on 58s & 59s...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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spectre6000 · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:51 am Post subject:

Here are some more detailed photos. This is a September '58 car (the change happened early).

_________________
Jason Hopper

-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me

HerrrKafer · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:58 pm Post subject:

Excellent thread! Dancing

Another interesting question is the changeover from 14mm to 13mm fender bolts. Progressive Refinements lists the change at 1 904 235 (March '58 ), however there is evidence some cars as late as 1959 model year still used 14mm bolts originally. My car is 1 922 928 and has 14mm hardware that is most certainly original. Also, did the pan and fuel tank mounting bolts change over at the same time?
_________________
Evan H.

AlteWagen · Troll Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8326 Location: PNW

My 59 vert also had 14mm bolts for fenders and pan.

58Dub · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:52 pm Post subject:

mario_0609 · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:41 pm Post subject:

Trayle D. the real oggfk · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:48 pm Post subject:

A true 58 is such a sweet car. I love both years, but an early 58 with all the oval parts like the reservoir tray rear seat lugauge strips and 14mm bolts is just a cool ass car.

My book shows

58 = Aug. 1957 - Oct. 58
59 = Nov. 1958 - Sept. 59

Heres some other cool stuff my book says about 58s and 59s.

"For the 1959 Karmann cabriolet model, the way the to boot attached was changed. New snaps and studs and positioning of such, gave the boot a better fit. Leatherete replaced cloth headlining material on the top header strip in March of 1959."

There was a question earlier about outside mirror stud and what was right. I was always under the impression that these were added at the dealerships. but appearantly the studd itself was changed in mid 58 production from what was provided in the previous oval aera. Heres what my book says.

"On Halloween of 1958, the top left door hinge was changed. The new hinge had a threaded stud to which a rear view mirror and mounting arm could be attached. If no mirror was present, a threaded cap was fit in place."

Interesting

"In January of 1959 the small "made in West Germany" plate that had been mounted below the I.D. plate was discontinued. In addition, the type of description changed again, for example: from 1/11 and 1/17 to 111 and 117 respectively."

On Convertibles...

"In September of 1958 the convertible hood release lock, under the dash, was moved closer to the steering column."

"In July, 1958 a PVC seal was added to the ash tray to maike it air tight". Im not sure what that is refering too, Ive never seen it... Anyone got a pricture of this change??? Maybe Ive just never noticed.
_________________
the original
. . . . . . .GERMAN FOLKS 602
"The Downest, Deepest, & Dopest"

Trayle Duncan
AKA: The Troll that lives under that samba
AKA: The Samba Fabricator

Stay'n sucka free for the 0000000000... Hell, from now on...

djkeev · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:00 pm Post subject:

stale air · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:34 pm Post subject:

spectre6000 · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:52 pm Post subject:

OK. I spent the day working on the car, but before I got too deep into it I got my fenders down from my loft (a '60 hardtop roof suspended upside down from the ceiling of the garage) and took some comparative photos. I have a full set of '58 fenders and a '64 driver's front that came with my car. Hopefully these combined with some of the other photos in this thread will help figure this out. Disclaimer, these are not off my car so I don't know the dates they were actually made, to the best of my knowledge they are correct to my September '58 German market car. The '58 fender is the shiny red one, the '64 is the light blue dusty one.

Profile:

From above:

Bucket (not the greatest, but it's something):

Now for a angle-by-angle rotation of the curve where the fender meets the running board:

Note the angle at the bottom compared to the '64 fender below.

One last shot of the other '58 fender, just in case it helps with anything (I took it, then decided to use the other one):

If anyone has any known fenders on either end of this one year wise, or can narrow it down to a better date range, please respond.
_________________
Jason Hopper

-'58 German Market Deluxe Beetle (in progress)
-'84 M1009 CUCV
-'81 K10
"Buy the best, cry once." -Gene Berg
"A cheap man will always buy the cheapest thing available, and then buys another one hoping for a better result, and then spends the rest of his life in misery complaining about it. A thrifty man will buy a good part once and never think about it again." -RockCrusher
"Don't feed the Shitty Parts Monster!" -Me

janerick3 · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:07 pm Post subject:


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