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Timwhy
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4002
Location: Maine
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 Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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The results are in!
The GW 15" steel wheel and the 205/70/15 Nokian will NOT fit in my clamshell.
What to do next? I know about the VC large spare tire carrier, but I don't like the design.
I just bought this new steel wheel and don't want to mess up that shiney black paint.
I think that I have to figure out what the distance for dropping the clam shell and getting that larger tire in.
After letting out some air, I could wedge it up in but could not close it and the tire was going to pinch the Rad. hoses.
What I'm thinking is, maybe lengthening the rear hinges of the clamshell.
This should drop the CS by an inch or so, maybe two. That should be enough to get it close to being closed.
Also legthening the release on the front of the carrier, dropping the front by an inch or so too.
I'm thinking this way I can keep the clamshell and not have to spend a third of the cost of VC carrier to ship one to the East Coast.
Has anyone done both rear hinges and front release mods to their clamshell together to get the oversized spare in?
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary
http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee |
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madspaniard
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2008
Posts: 3795
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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there are a bunch of theads on the samba about how to modify the stock clamshell carrier, I have them bookmarked at home, not here
_________________
1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali |
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Timwhy
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4002
Location: Maine
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PDXWesty
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6243
Location: Portland OR
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madspaniard
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2008
Posts: 3795
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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there you go, that is the one, "here" was in the office, different computer
_________________
1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali |
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Timwhy
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4002
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| madspaniard wrote: |
there you go, that is the one, "here" was in the office, different computer |
Thanks Mad & PDX but this does not modify both the rear and front together. That's what I was looking for, besides in this thread the van is a Syncro and Sodo removes the rails that protect the Radiator hoses that I have (2wd).
Kind of what to keep these intact. Thanks anyway!..........Tim
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary
http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee |
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PDXWesty
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6243
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| Timwhy wrote: |
Thanks Mad & PDX but this does not modify both the rear and front together. That's what I was looking for, besides in this thread the van is a Syncro and Sodo removes the rails that protect the Radiator hoses that I have (2wd).
Kind of what to keep these intact. Thanks anyway!..........Tim |
All you need to do to drop the front is use a longer bolt and snug the clamshell up to the tire. The longer the bolt, the more drop you get. You can also adjust the length or angle of the rear hinge extension to make it any length you want. In concept, it seems like the way to go.
_________________
89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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Timwhy
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4002
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| PDXWesty wrote: |
| Timwhy wrote: |
Thanks Mad & PDX but this does not modify both the rear and front together. That's what I was looking for, besides in this thread the van is a Syncro and Sodo removes the rails that protect the Radiator hoses that I have (2wd).
Kind of what to keep these intact. Thanks anyway!..........Tim |
All you need to do to drop the front is use a longer bolt and snug the clamshell up to the tire. The longer the bolt, the more drop you get. You can also adjust the length or angle of the rear hinge extension to make it any length you want. In concept, it seems like the way to go. |
That's what I'm thinking. I still want to use the bars above the spare tire, so not to damage the coolant hoses.
I plan on doing a mock-up of some brackets/hinges for the rear. I feel if I can lower the rear hinges this will not put as much pressure on the tire going up in the front. If I have to use a spacer with a longer bolt to secure the CS to the frame then that's ok too.
If the mock-up works then I'll have a machine shop make me something more professional looking/working.
Money well spent in the long run, if I don't need someone to make several versions of the same thing at different lengths.
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary
http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee |
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Zero419
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2008
Posts: 2160
Location: PA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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It may be a good idea to use some type of standoff pipe spacer when using a longer bolt so that you can really tighten it down.
I'd hate to see that thing turn into a catapult.
_________________
1987 Westy Auto Bostig 2.0 Ztec |
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Zero419
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2008
Posts: 2160
Location: PA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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When I go the the 15's I will stick with the stock spare...
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1987 Westy Auto Bostig 2.0 Ztec |
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1621
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Posts: 2174
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Witless Joe
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Joined: May 06, 2005
Posts: 460
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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I have a 2WD, and a 27.5" OD spare.
I played around with Sodo's solution, but eventually I gave up on the clamshell. It's pretty hard to incorporate it in a 2wd. I had a local welder fit up a "square" under the tire, made of box section and flat bar. It has a flat bar piece welded to the front of the square, that goes up vertically to the bolt and latch.
There's a photo below, but subsequent to taking that photo, we reduced the length of the front flat bar piece so that the tire rides horizontally now. It didn't help matters for it to be tipped down in front, because the pinch point is at the very back, above where it rides on the cross member.
We had to cut the hinge pintles from the top of the cross member, and weld them to the bottom. Every little bit helps on a 2WD.
The tire is inflated to 30 psi, although it's rated to 65 psi, but anything higher and it really interferes with going into reverse (4 speed trans). I didn't have any trouble with the steering rod rubbing the way Sodo did on his Syncro, but shifting into reverse still contacts the sidewall.
No rad hose interference.
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Timwhy
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4002
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Took the clam shell off as well as the bars that hold it in.
Got some flat bars and drilled some holes in them to bolt to the CS.
The rub is, it doesn't matter how long these flat bars are. It can not
be made to work as the lip of the CS rests above the cross member.
If you try to lower it at this point then to front will be pushed forward to much.
Then the bolt will not line up with the hole.
So I guess that I am either going to have to suck it up and buy the VC
oversized tire hanger or carry my new spare inside the van (not an option).
I did run some bolts through the CS hinges with the CS attached. The tire
was still a tight fit with no bars above it. Started the van up and cycled through
the gears, I'll look tomorrow to see if there are any rub marks on the tire.
I didn't ratchet down the retaining bolt all the way. I think that I would probably
would not want too, maybe like 1621 did use washers
to get it tight.
Of the people using the VC carrier are you all still using the bars above the tire in
conjunction with the carrier?
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary
http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee |
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wbx
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2005
Posts: 1254
Location: Monterey, CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Timwhy wrote: |
Of the people using the VC carrier are you all still using the bars above the tire in
conjunction with the carrier? |
I'm not using the VC carrier, but you did remind me of something i did do with my clamshell. I also used bolts, ditched the tie-down bars, and used some webbing and fastex buckles i got at REI. I have a 205/65R15 (not quite your size) in there, but it has worked just fine for about 6 years with no rubbing.
Not exactly what you are asking, but close...
_________________
'84 Westy (first owner).......but my daily driver has pedals
My "perspective" mantra:
A Volkswagen Vanagon is just a material thing,
As such, it is of the earth,
And if i need to, I can let my Van go. |
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Timwhy
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4002
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| wbx wrote: |
| Timwhy wrote: |
Of the people using the VC carrier are you all still using the bars above the tire in
conjunction with the carrier? |
I'm not using the VC carrier, but you did remind me of something i did do with my clamshell. I also used bolts, ditched the tie-down bars, and used some webbing and fastex buckles i got at REI. I have a 205/65R15 (not quite your size) in there, but it has worked just fine for about 6 years with no rubbing.
Not exactly what you are asking, but close... |
You used the webbing to keep the tire from moving around, right?
Could you also use some type of J-bolt mounted to the CS to secure the tire?
Your reply got me Googling and if there is no rubbing, pinching or wondering of my spare.
I think that I will look into getting a J-bolt, retainer and wing nut and see if I can make it work.
http://www.amazon.com/Help-41068-Spare-Tire-Hold/dp/B000CO78CC
This looks like an inexpensive way to go if it will work.
Thanks again for all the replies...................Tim
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary
http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee |
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wbx
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2005
Posts: 1254
Location: Monterey, CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| Timwhy wrote: |
You used the webbing to keep the tire from moving around, right?
Could you also use some type of J-bolt mounted to the CS to secure the tire? |
Yes, i used the webbing to stabilize the tire. I don't think it is necessary, but clearly a good idea. Your J-bolt sure seems like it would work - just keep in mind that the box under the shifter fits into the negative space of the wheel, so it can't stick out too long.
Honestly, while not OEM style, i think the webbing solution might be a faster/easier retention system than the j-bolt (just click-click for me). However, i do know it is a bit more hack-y looking than the more standard system you've linked.
I just went outside to look at the webbing, and with the exception of one smalll abraded spot, likely from going off-road, it looks A-OK after 6-ish years. Maybe not a solution for you, but just FYI.
_________________
'84 Westy (first owner).......but my daily driver has pedals
My "perspective" mantra:
A Volkswagen Vanagon is just a material thing,
As such, it is of the earth,
And if i need to, I can let my Van go. |
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Timwhy
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4002
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Went to the FLAPS to get a J-bolt but they didn't have them.
Then went to Home Depot and bought a 6" 3/8 threaded bolt,
two oversized febder washers, 1 lock washer, a bag of
3/8" wingnuts and a 6" flat bar.
Drilled a 1/2" hole in the middle of the CS and one in the
middle of the flat bar. Covered the flat bar with 1" wide foam
weatherstripping as this will be in contact with the inner part
of the wheel. Pushed the bolt through the flat bar and then
down the inside to the wheel and through the hole in the CS,
Lifted the CS and put 1 lock washer and three 1/2" cut washers
between the inside of the clasp and the frame. Then pushed
the frame bolt through the clasp and gave it a couple of turns.
Then I put on a fender washer, lock washer and a wing nut
on the bolt to holds the spare in place and tightened it.
After that I tightened the CS bolt and I think I will be good to go.
I got under the van to se what I could, mainly if the hoses were
getting pinched. The outer hose was flatened so slight but I was
able to reach up and move it ove a half inch and now no more pinch.
It's getting dark here so tomorrow I will start up the van an see if any
thing moves while the van is running i.e. hoses
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary
http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee |
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dgbeatty
Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2006
Posts: 702
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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I have a 87 and a 90, both are Westies. The clamshell on the 90 has an offset front mount and the upper springs are deeper. Both are factory. I checked at VagCAT and they list two different clamshell/spring combinations. My Agilis 206/65 15s fit well in the 90 but not in the 87, it has a VC carrier now.
Dan |
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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There has been lot of discussion about what is the largest diameter tire that will fit in the clamshell w/o mods. It was also brought up that a 205 tire is too wide.
I just bought a 16 x 6" passat wheel for a spare and am trying to fit a tire on it. I'd rather not mod the shell. I'm basically looking for a donut spare.
I can go with a 195/55R16, but the load rating is only 89. Again, this is an emergency spare.
If I go to 205, I get lots more choices. |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Load index of 89 is fine, for a while, but I would not push it.
Burl Beveridge (http://burleysmotorsports.com) is working on a 2WD solution currently, too, based on emails I have recently had with him.
So is there a consensus on what does and does not fit under a 2WD?
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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