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chambersc
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2007
Posts: 349
Location: Enid, OK
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 Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:32 am Post subject: Welded and Balanced Fan Question |
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Who do I get one from. I've been looking at upgrading mine since it is the original 1974 OEM fan. There are several listed here on The Samba, one os an OEM one that's been welded and balanced. Other's are obviously aftermarket. Anyone have suggestions on who has a good one?
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lupin..the..3rd
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2009
Posts: 1800
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:07 am Post subject: |
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I dunno, I have the original '79 fan in mine. I suspect most folks are running original fans. "If it aint broke, don't fix it" is how I look at it. Plus I don't rev the motor up too much. I thought the welded and balanced fans were more for high-rpm operation?
If the fan did start to come apart, it would make quite bit of noise I would think, slapping around against the shroud. |
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Marv [UK]
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2009
Posts: 2225
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| lupin..the..3rd wrote: |
I dunno, I have the original '79 fan in mine. I suspect most folks are running original fans. "If it aint broke, don't fix it" is how I look at it. Plus I don't rev the motor up too much. I thought the welded and balanced fans were more for high-rpm operation?
If the fan did start to come apart, it would make quite bit of noise I would think, slapping around against the shroud. |
er, not quite, they'll make a noise and take half your ancilliary tinware with it. They are effectively 2 circular plates ( i know, i'm doing the simple analogy here) held together by vanes that are peened over only. there is only one bolt holding the lot onto the alternator / generator spindle. Any imbalance from losing a vane will quickly multiply and you'll be left with just the bolt and one plate on the charging aparatus spindle and quite a few rents elsewhere.
Technically, they are good to 5000 or so revs as with the stock fan belt, the belt will slip well before it reaches terminal angular velocity. people do rev them higher safe in the knowledge that their cooling won't get any more than the equivalent of 4000 ish revs but they can be seen as insurance.
If you want the best fan you can get, find a local shop with balancing equipment and get them to TIG your current fan without any wire, then balance it. |
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sullydog93
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2004
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:02 am Post subject: Brazilian fans |
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The Brazilian welded/balanced fans are fair.
The metal seems weaker/thinner(?). They will
warp if you look at them wrong. I should have
had someone use the TIG torch on my old German
fan.
My OG fan had some wobble, about .050-.060. The
new Brazilian was worse - .060 - .100 . I used the
manual method to true it up, it still has a little more
wobble than the OG fan.
I suppose the torque generated from inertia will flex
the fan toward the flywheel and minimize the realized
warpage anyway? |
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Ragman
The Sambinator
Joined: July 18, 2003
Posts: 3517
Location: Denver
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RIS
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2003
Posts: 3043
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76884
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Berg.
Trust me... it's not pretty one a fan explodes... i've been there.
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1961bluebug
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2002
Posts: 1137
Location: Czech Republic, Europe
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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I also went with Jason Eggum´s OEM fan and just for my interest and safety I put the fan to my balancer. It was spot on and straight.
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|82x94|
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Eaallred
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 5756
Location: West Valley City, Utah
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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That's an incredible deal right there! The welds look fantastic too.
There are two 'brands' of OEM fans avaliable (or at least there was a few years ago when I worked in the industry). One with blue packaging, and what not appears to be bare metal, and one in a cardboard box that is bare metal. It looks like Jason is using the good fans which ROCKS! They're factory balanced and appear to be as nice as the German fans IMHO.
No way about it, that looks to be a great product, at an even better price. I don't really know Jason, but i'd stand behind what he's offering right there. Looks great!
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Eric Allred
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17284
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: Brazilian fans |
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| sullydog93 wrote: |
I suppose the torque generated from inertia will flex
the fan toward the flywheel and minimize the realized
warpage anyway? |
Did you smoke something before you posted this?
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16954
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:19 am Post subject: |
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I'm building a 2007 engine and decided to go with a welded and balanced fan. I read this thread and took Glenns recommendation and purchased the Gene Berg fan. To be honest I think I'm sorry I did. It looks just like other welded and balanced fans sold here on Thesamba classifieds for less than $100. It even came in the same box that's pictured in those ads. The problem isn't the quality, it's the cost. The price was $120 but by the time I paid the $5 handling fee, tax, and shipping the total came out to be $147. I think that's pretty steep. Now, I don't know if Berg actually modifies these fans in house but I suspect they buy them and just resell them apparently making a huge profit. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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craigman
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 2397
Location: redding
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Only fan i have personally seen that has exploded was a welded one. |
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J DUB
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2004
Posts: 227
Location: HILO, HAWAII
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| My unwelded OEM fan lasted 2 months before it let go. I picked up a welded Berg locally for $70 new. Should have grabbed 2 at that price. Its still holding with quite a few 7500 rpm shifts. |
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junior55
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2006
Posts: 941
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| craigman wrote: |
| Only fan i have personally seen that has exploded was a welded one. |
I not impressed with the weldeds that I have seen either...
Most of the welded fans that I have looked at have the little tabs that protruded through the side plates, burned down FLAT leaving a butt weld.
Now relying strictly on the somewhat carbonized welds to hold everything and not the mechanical interlocking of the metal.
All it takes is one bad weld and its all gone.
I would think that some precision brazing would be better because of the
lower heat and a non-destructive flow AROUND the crimped structure
to be much stronger.
Welded fans are scarry looking to me personally and I have just relied on
the "loose belt slip" to keep the revs from getting to the destruction point.
There is nothing to be gained by a fan that CAN spin at 10 grand anyway. |
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craigman
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 2397
Location: redding
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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yep, prob is when they weld it, it gets to hot. When metal gets that hot, it becomes brittle.
Dam'd if you do, dam'd of you don't kinda deals... |
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pupjoint
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2007
Posts: 1140
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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i have a Berg fan. but to be honest welded balanced fans aint rocket science, i am sure there are many good ones out there. Berg is good for many other parts, but welded fan is just a welded fan.
personally i prefer to use a german fan and get work done on it instead of brazilian ones.
then again quality may have changed now. |
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jamestwo
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 2203
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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I think I have a scat 0r bugpack fan that only has every other tab welded.
It was 65 or 70 bucks.
BTW, it's been to 6500.
My Berg has hit 7200 rpm several times. I bought it in 2000 and it's been on 4 or 5 motors.
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neil68
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2007
Posts: 3440
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:22 pm Post subject: welded fan |
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I've been running a Berg welded fan, based on an OEM German fan. A buddy of mine is a very experienced mechanic, hot rodder and welder, and he was impressed with the Berg welding quality.
Having had to re-weld some other VW parts over the years (that came apart due to suspect welds), I think we all realize that there are varying degrees of workmanship...
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MAYHEM
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Joined: January 30, 2006
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Sigurd
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2006
Posts: 2639
Location: Rockford, IL
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Is it possible to have a balanced fan that still has some wobble to it? |
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