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'58/'59 Beetle Discussion
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mattpeace
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There isnt carpet on the rear of the backseat, it is some sort of hardboard
that i think may have been upholstered.
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alstare84
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if this can be helpuful at my website you can see some March 1960 beetle...

http://alstare84.net/?page_id=27

http://alstare84.net/?page_id=88
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Jake Martinez
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have the og seat bakrest and it has same carpet that was in the rest of the car.
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zombie wrote:
buslife wrote:

10 inch narrowed beam

Congrats, that's going to look like shit.
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58Dub
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it was added...both of mine do not have carpet......haven't seen any that did.
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stale air
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont believe they got carpet on the back of the rear seat til 66.
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Jake Martinez
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so could this have been a option in 63? with the carpet on the seat rest would there be luggage rails in 63?
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zombie wrote:
buslife wrote:

10 inch narrowed beam

Congrats, that's going to look like shit.
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hundel
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

October '58:

Front fender straight vertical where it meets running board (no flare).
Front fenders have metal headlamp tubes.

Hope this helps narrow down the transition date. I own body VIN 2117358, and my one-year only '59 Fjord Blue paint helps make original body parts stand out on my car.


By the way, VIN listing from page 1 of this thread indicates I'm part of the '58 run. This vehicle was sold and titled as a '59. The line between '58 and '59 is not black and white. Seems the factory was putting '59 fenders and the new paint color on VINs that were logged as being part of the '58 run. And, for obvious reasons, dealers were already calling them '59s.
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Pulga59
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jul '59.


My bug front fenders both have the wire tubing and a smooth transition from fender to side step and there is a dramatic bulge of the headlight compared to my buddys '60. But the p.o closed the horn grills. Will after market fenders come with wire tubes under the head light buckets or is that an indication of original fenders?
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mario_0609
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
mario_0609 wrote:

...........Unfortunately it says nothing about fenders,.........


Actually it does, 6.8.59 but it refers to the mudgaurd bracket, and headlamp bucket rubber wire pipe exiting the top. This info also applies to the Ghia.
You are right, nothing for the Beetle.


I’ve been re-reading and thinking about the fender question: Maybe we have misinterpreted the information which is given in the Etzold book from which I posted pictures on the first page of this thread.

On the picture below, it is stated that on 6 August 1959, from 2 533 158 (141), a number of changes were conducted. Including the following:
“Kotflügel, vorn: Stützen für Scheinwerfermulde entfallen. Bohrung oben für Kabel mit Gummischutzschlauch“.
I am not really into technical English, but I would translate this as: „Fender, front: Pillar for headlight mould omitted. Drill hole on top for cable with rubber protective hose”.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Initially we interpreted this to be a Karmann Ghia change only, since it refered to as 141. But, let's assume that this is not related to Karmann Ghias, I’d say that this is the date we are looking for and that the wire tube has been omitted in early August. I have no expertise in Karmann Ghias, but I think this is fair assumption: Take a look at the other pictures I’ve posted from the book on page one (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4416816&highlight=#4416816) – it always clearly states when some changes are related to Ghias or Cabriolets or even Exports only.

What this doesn’t confirm is the change of the bulge, but I’d assume that the fenders were completely changed at once: change of the bulge, change of the wire tube and change of the running board transition all in early August?

So we would need an og July 59 fender and an og August 59 fender then please Wink
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JDGas
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more thing that came to my attention today while looking at the few wire tube fenders I have. I noticed that on the backside of the headlight bucket there are a few variations. One is smooth, one has a dimple top and bottom, and the other has two vertical slotted dimples. What do you guys' have?
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JDGas
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took some picyures today of what I was trying to explain above.
Here are european wire tube fendes with a smoot bucket.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Backside of same.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is a original(I think) American '58/'59 wire tube fender with a pair of dimples in the back of the bucket(bottom one is just above wire tube hole). It's hard to see from the inside, but you can in the rear view picture. I had to remove the undercoating to see them better.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Backside of same.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And here are the fenders that are currently on my '59. My first thought was that they are guaranteed to be reproductions, but where the meet the running board is similar to an original. However, the headlight bulge is not as pronounced as an OG, and there are holes in the bucket for later wiring. Now guess is an early reproduction. I assume when the P/O had it painted in '82, he swapped out the fenders for fresh new ones.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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stale air
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is something that I also find interesting. I always thought that they redesigned the rear seat stops in 60. But I was looking at CUSHE63's 59 resto thread and came across this. It looks like they redesigned them in 59. Pretty cool I think.

Here is a pic of the rear seat stop on his 59.....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is a pic of the rear seat stop on my 58..........

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Agave58
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDGas wrote:
Took some picyures today of what I was trying to explain above.
Here are european wire tube fendes with a smoot bucket.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Backside of same.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is a original(I think) American '58/'59 wire tube fender with a pair of dimples in the back of the bucket(bottom one is just above wire tube hole). It's hard to see from the inside, but you can in the rear view picture. I had to remove the undercoating to see them better.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Backside of same.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And here are the fenders that are currently on my '59. My first thought was that they are guaranteed to be reproductions, but where the meet the running board is similar to an original. However, the headlight bulge is not as pronounced as an OG, and there are holes in the bucket for later wiring. Now guess is an early reproduction. I assume when the P/O had it painted in '82, he swapped out the fenders for fresh new ones.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Here is the back side of my Headlight bucket on my jan 30th 1958 VW. The dimples are both top and bottom and are vertical?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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spectre6000
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stale air wrote:

Here is a pic of the rear seat stop on my 58..........

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


My 9-58 has these as well. I need to find the rubber parts...
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JDGas
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stale air wrote:
Here is something that I also find interesting. I always thought that they redesigned the rear seat stops in 60. But I was looking at CUSHE63's 59 resto thread and came across this. It looks like they redesigned them in 59. Pretty cool I think.

Here is a pic of the rear seat stop on his 59.....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is a pic of the rear seat stop on my 58..........

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


According to Wolfsburg West the transition was mid '59. My '59 has the later style. If i remember right my '59 was built in May.
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bsvwoc
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:22 pm    Post subject: 58/59 Reply with quote

My beetle has the earlier style, what material were they made from?
And lets not forget the seat hooks and rubber when did they change those?

PC
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stale air
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: 58/59 Reply with quote

bsvwoc wrote:
My beetle has the earlier style, what material were they made from?


PC


Do you mean the rubber that wraps around the round post?
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JDGas
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: 58/59 Reply with quote

stale air wrote:
bsvwoc wrote:
My beetle has the earlier style, what material were they made from?


PC


Do you mean the rubber that wraps around the round post?


http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111885553
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JDGas
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stale air wrote:
mario_0609 wrote:
I think it is a good idea to consolidate the research & discussion of 58/59 differences here in one single thread. When I first got my 58, I always thought the only difference between these two years was the sway bar at the beam - how was I mistaken....



Actually the addtion of the sway bar is a mid 58 change. My 58, July built has one. My buddies 58, the twin to my car, but December of 57 built, does not have one.


The sway bar on my june '58 has two arches in it, unlike my '59 which is flat.
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stale air
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDGas wrote:
stale air wrote:
bsvwoc wrote:
My beetle has the earlier style, what material were they made from?


PC


Do you mean the rubber that wraps around the round post?


http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111885553



Yep, thats them..... Very Happy







JDGas wrote:
stale air wrote:
mario_0609 wrote:
I think it is a good idea to consolidate the research & discussion of 58/59 differences here in one single thread. When I first got my 58, I always thought the only difference between these two years was the sway bar at the beam - how was I mistaken....



Actually the addtion of the sway bar is a mid 58 change. My 58, July built has one. My buddies 58, the twin to my car, but December of 57 built, does not have one.


The sway bar on my june '58 has two arches in it, unlike my '59 which is flat.


Jd, can you post pics? I am guessing that my 58 has arches like yours, but am curious what the differences between the two are.
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