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DAIZEE Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2010 Posts: 7552 Location: Greater Toronto Area Ontario West Side
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:48 am Post subject: |
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If you think it is unsafe, why drive it. Driver's choice. I feel quite a bit of paranoia in this thread. All the negative thoughts. Rather than talk about how unsafe you feel it is then get rid of it.
I feel quite safe, safer than any car I've driven (and I've had a lot). So very much depends on the driver's abilities, knowledge, experience and attitude. Yes I do drive defensively but I'd say I'm a fairly aggressive driver. That keeps me in the safety zone. I can only be observant of others, I can't control their actions. Today more and more driver's should not be driving. You wonder how they got their licenses (that's another story). If I observe anyone like that then I get the heck away from them even if I have to speed up to get out of their area.
You can't be a passive driver as soon many are. Then there are the timid drivers. IMHO passive, timid, slow, uncertain drivers in any vehicle are the cause of accidents in a lot of the cases.
If your vanagon is in current up to date status for the kind of engine et al it carries and you are a competant involved driver then the danger is elsewhere. Elsewhere you can not control, you can only be aware. _________________ '09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold) |
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GBA 88West LA Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008 Posts: 1279 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:55 am Post subject: |
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definatley safe in regards to accidents, & just as safe in regards to freak mishaps....ive been in a few accidents with vanagons and one with a bay and was pleasantly suprised how well the vehicles protected its human cargo...only prob is.. where as you can get away with repairing other vehs these usually end up totaled _________________ 88 Westy GL Vanaru 07 2.5 EJ25/AA Trans/oiling plates, 1.14 3rd-.77-4th..solar powered cabin |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15143 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:35 am Post subject: |
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I don't know,, if you feel any vehicle is safe enough to let your gaurd down your already half way to the hospital.
go to an Salvage auction yard and take a look at the multitudes of damaged cars & SUVs they get really gnarly and well still don't protect passangers as well as anyone would really like in the variety of collisions probable
drive like everyone is out to hit you, because they are.
1st 2 rules of the road
#1 Don't hit anybody it's not cool.
#2 don't let anyone hit you, it's not fun
#3 try to obey the rest of the traffic rules _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16501 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Classicvibe Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2009 Posts: 743 Location: Salt Lake City
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Is your van SAFE? |
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wbx wrote: |
wbx wrote: |
Personally, i think vanagons are not very safe at all in terms of crash protection - for exactly what you are concerned about. No crumple zone. |
Digging up an old thread here (linked to from a much later thread)... FWIW, the samba has largely changed my mind on this. After seeing some of the unfortunate crash results of people's loved vans, I am amazed at how well they protect the occupants. Those german engineers really did their due diligence to make a relatively short front end as safe and effective as possible - and the real life photos and stories here are a true testament to that.
Be safe,
-Damon |
Your original comments are similar to what I have been considering for some time, and I think they are sound (about the crunch zone, and using other cars for this). From the accident photos I have seen, the Vanagon is dispensing the frontal impact energy in a different way (since there is no crunch zone) either through the van or as you mentioned, through the other car. Vanagon vs. Vanagon would be an interesting crash. If I weren't in $20k on mine I would donate it for this crash (yes, I am a bit frustrated with the van right now). _________________ On a mission, the destination is just an excuse.
Syncro Solstice 2022...see you there!
1986.5 Wolfsburg Syncro Westfalia Poptop Weekender Transporter |
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maximan1 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2008 Posts: 1354 Location: Anaheim, California
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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ncwesty wrote: |
So here is my two cents. They really aren't that safe. I was involved in a head on collision in a 69 splitty and busted my foot up pretty bad. It was wedged between the floorboard and the front of the bus(what was left of It). Thank god I didn't have my seatbelt on. I watched the whole thing happen and was able to jump up a bit(I was the passenger) and save the rest of my legs. .This has not and will not stop me from driving my van(84westy).. Basically drive safe and watch out for all the other crazies.
Mike |
I know this post is old, but they didn't make splitties in '69. _________________ 1978 Transporter, 2.0L FI |
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DAIZEE Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2010 Posts: 7552 Location: Greater Toronto Area Ontario West Side
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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This is a non scientific reply but "they don't make vehicles like they used to" is somewhat relative. In my humble opinion the Vanagons are made of much stronger materials than the newer vehicles. In head on collisions isn't it the engine that usually does the most damage. I think the frames are much more solid than newer models.
Steel was steel back in the old days, steel today is not the same pure steel in days gone by.
Any vehicle is unsafe. Driver's cause accidents, not vehicles. I feel quite safe and comfortable and definitely feel like I have more benefits driving my 83.5 Vanagon than I do my 98 Toyota Tercel.
Due Diligent Driving and knowing what is going on all around you!! _________________ '09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold) |
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jeffklein Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2009 Posts: 132 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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maximan1 wrote: |
ncwesty wrote: |
So here is my two cents. They really aren't that safe. I was involved in a head on collision in a 69 splitty and busted my foot up pretty bad. It was wedged between the floorboard and the front of the bus(what was left of It). Thank god I didn't have my seatbelt on. I watched the whole thing happen and was able to jump up a bit(I was the passenger) and save the rest of my legs. .This has not and will not stop me from driving my van(84westy).. Basically drive safe and watch out for all the other crazies.
Mike |
I know this post is old, but they didn't make splitties in '69. |
That was written 4 1/2 years ago. LOL. I think the statute of limitations on letting him know he was incorrect ran out a LONG time ago.
I just think it's funny that WBX dug this thread out of 2006 simply to let us know that he changed his opinion in the last 4 years and everything that was discussed then is totally being re-hashed now. |
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strawhouse Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2008 Posts: 317 Location: Muskoka, Ontario Canada
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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I have crashed a motorcycle before in the rain and slid across the road and into a field, I walked away from it and I actually thought it was fun. A small change in the dynamics of the crash can change the out come in a second. You are at risk in anything you drive. _________________ Pacifist with a gun |
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Sheesh Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2007 Posts: 394 Location: New Pine Creek, Orygun
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Aside from defensive driving and safety, I think if you buy a 30 year old rig that hasn't been worked on in years/decades it is unsafe. When first purchased our van was unsafe.
Like many purchasers, fuel lines were only the first items needing replacement. Unlike many purchasers, we fully expected to put money into the van rather than rely on its "karma".
Now that I have put $10K into parts (including a recent transmission), our van is far more safe.
However, even with all these new parts, I must confess I feel that our van is not that reliable and from this feel it is less safe.
Maybe it is because everything is so new, less than 10K miles since purchase three years ago, and we have a family of 5.
With more use, perhaps I'll feel differently. _________________ 1982 Westy, 2.0L AC CA emissions |
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randywebb Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005 Posts: 3815 Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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actually, there are new high strength steels today - partly b/c of pressure on the steel manfs. from Alcoa and other Al companies
some high performance cars use these steels - I know the new Porsches do _________________ 1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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Sir Sam Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2009 Posts: 1684 Location: Fort Collins Colorado!
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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DAIZEE wrote: |
In my humble opinion the Vanagons are made of much stronger materials than the newer vehicles.............Steel was steel back in the old days, steel today is not the same pure steel in days gone by. |
Honestly, I think your completely wrong here. The metal in the vans unibody is soft compared to modern vehicles.
Very recently there have been great advances, vehicles designed and made in the last ten years use high strength steels capable of absorbing more energy than older steels. These steels are stronger than any used in the past and have been able to improve the safety of vehicles while also reducing the weight. One of the reasons aluminum bodies have made an inroads for reducing weight of vehicles is that these new high strength steels have made the vehicles lighter, stronger, and cheaper than using aluminum.
I LOVED drilling out the spot welds on the vanagon because the old steel was so soft it was like cutting butter, in comparison working on newer vehicles is like trying to to cut down a tree with a butter knife.
Now that being said, I'm saying I don't think the vanagon is safe, I'm just saying that modern steels are leaps and bounds better than what was used in the van 30 years ago. Just think of how safe and rigid a vanagon made with new high strength steels would be! _________________ '91 Carat Westy
87' Syncro + '87 Westy conversion coming soon |
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Sir Sam Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2009 Posts: 1684 Location: Fort Collins Colorado!
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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randywebb wrote: |
actually, there are new high strength steels today - partly b/c of pressure on the steel manfs. from Alcoa and other Al companies
some high performance cars use these steels - I know the new Porsches do |
Chrysler uses them in all sorts of vehicles, they are quite common place in fact. _________________ '91 Carat Westy
87' Syncro + '87 Westy conversion coming soon |
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DAIZEE Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2010 Posts: 7552 Location: Greater Toronto Area Ontario West Side
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Well then I'm not uptodate on steel. Last time I had any involvement with it, it was being poorly manufactured off shore from recycled steel. There was a period. Thanks for bringing me up to date. _________________ '09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold) |
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delta-vanagon Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2008 Posts: 144 Location: Delta, OH
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Sheesh wrote
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However, even with all these new parts, I must confess I feel that our van is not that reliable and from this feel it is less safe.
Maybe it is because everything is so new, less than 10K miles since purchase three years ago, and we have a family of 5.
With more use, perhaps I'll feel differently. |
I think the reason I love the Samba is that I have learned how to make my 24year old van more reliable and safer. I found out from here problems to look for, what those odd sounds are, trouble areas to focus on, and a lot of cool ideas to make my van more fun to drive. My 86 GL has a Bostig conversion with over 25k on it since May 2009 and I feel that it is extremely reliable now. Of course since I bought the van I have new fuel lines, new brakes, proper tires, new Bilstines, and of course a 2003 motor with just over 50k miles.
From seeing the crash tests and real world accident photos and stories here I am confident that my Vanagon will protect me as well or better than the Dodge Caravan my wife had before. I don't expect to do well if I run into a fully loaded dump truck, but I don't expect that from any car I have every owned.
The Samba gives me the knowledge and confidence to drive my 24 year old Vangon with my 4 kids, my wife, my 6 month old grandson, and anyone else on any trip we need to go on. _________________ 86 GL Bostig & 89 Wolfsburg |
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VisPacem Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2007 Posts: 1143 Location: Las Vegas
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madspaniard Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2008 Posts: 3795 Location: Alameda, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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randywebb wrote: |
how many of you have replaced the 25+ year old seatbelts?? |
I did, all around, almost first thing I did when I bought the westy _________________ 1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali |
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randywebb Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005 Posts: 3815 Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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zehr gut on the seat belts!
other safety related things to do are to replace the rubber brake hoses every 10, 15 or 20 years
the fuel lines - in case you can't run away from your own private burning man fest fast enuff
and to check out the rest of the braking system periodically
other than that, you just have to realize that the vehicle is far safer than a Bay window or Splittie but far less safe than a new MB, Volvo, BMW etc. _________________ 1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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PDXWesty Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006 Posts: 6243 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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randywebb wrote: |
but far less safe than a new MB, Volvo, BMW etc. |
I for one (from very personal experience) would have to take exception to that statement. _________________ 89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16501 Location: Brookeville, MD
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