The most WRONG 2180 I could build, right? Well...

[Turbo_Manx_Maniac]

That thing is going to idle like a stock 1600.

I ran a WEB 109 on 105 lobe centers (260/260 @ .050") on a 1915 and dual webbers, had only a slight hint of lope at 800 rpm, at 1000 rpm is was smooth as glass.

If you want lope, you need duration, and you picked a cam that has NO duration.

If you can get it to idle at 300 rpm, it might sound lopey.

[Chad M]

[modok]

Interesting! It is a very expensive way of making a BIG stock engine with IDFs.
Only bad news is it will idle smooth. Sorry but a "cammy" idle is completely fixed by IR carbs. You will see.
107 lc is nothing radical, i run 105, some have gone as short as 100, they idle smooth with IR carbs.


BUT WE HAVE THE SOLUTION--- It's called the "Johnny's four play" manifold+ engle 130.
I'm not kidding.
It will lope then!, oh yess it will.

[mark tucker]

so why not a 276-284 @.050 with .380 cam lift & 1.5 -1.6rockers cut on a 107.and have something that will fly and sound great !!!or a roller with the same specs but a timing retard at Idle to get the sound you want. I wish I had a buddy that could & would cut me some experminting cams. like that one with only about .360 lift for a 1.6 or more rocker.a 1.9 or 2.0 would be great !! no reason for throwing that lifter& push around that much when you can put a jessel nascar rocker on it.

[RockCrusher]

Sadly, 1.5 is about it. After that things get moved around too much. Beyond 1.5 you'll have to mill off the rocker pedestals and do some real trick stuff. harder to mod is the pretty well written in stone valve and push rod tube locations. Have to start welding and relocating holes over 1.5's. Nothing is impossible though.

RC
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[Andrew]

I don't know how much I see the point in what you're trying to do, but I applaud you (even if nobody else does) for experimenting and trying to make something happen rather than building one of the accepted engine combinations out there. You never know what you'll end up figuring out by experimentation.

[bugninva]

[[email protected]]

Just put a fart can on it, it will work

[jamestwo]

I like everything but the carbs, looks like the cam was picked by desktop dyno or some other program.

My 2332 uses 106 degree lobe angle. Should have killer torque IMHO.


EDIT: reread your combo, with that exhaust it's going to over heat and melt. Total waste of parts running 1-3/8 exhaust.

You should bump the exhaust up to 1-5/8 4-1. Nothing beats a 4-1 for the $$$$$
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hEY, lOOK, i'M WRONG HALF THE TIME, AND THE OTHER HALF i'M NOT SURE WHAT THE HECK i'M TALKING ABOUT. MY POST ARE FOR MY OWN ENTERTAINMENT VALUE ONLY.

[RockCrusher]

[frostnettenes]

Ok, ok. I understand my desire to do something different is an abomination to the elitists out there. I love the "everyone has a right to their opinion, but I'm right and therefore, your opinion doesn't matter"-ishness I've gotten from a few of you. To those who have actually offered positive criticism and encouragement, thank you. Somehow it's apparently been misconstrued that I'm a stereotypical "Bubba" who has a fat bank account; I make $25k a year, thank you. I sold a couple of projects to fund this one. I don't see me spending a total of more than $10k on this engine. At most, it would have been a few camshaft/head swaps. As for my competence, I find it not applicable to anyone's judgement based on a couple of posts of inquiry. Grow up.

I talked to Dave (the cam grinder & fellow imbecile) whilst at work tonight, and he agreed with some of you: that cam profile is not going to do what we thought it would. We're going to throw it into a stock 1600 SP that's laying around to see what it does. We never considered that an opposed four-cylinder doesn't stop at 107 degrees of lobe separation like the common V8 tends to find as the extreme end of things. So now, we're curious as to what various cam grinds which are already out there we can take reference from and do some more benchtop dyno testing with. The other components of the build will stay the same (except maybe a head change at most), so what do you guys recommend?

A Tri-Mil Euro-tip muffler actually kind of has that Subaru-ish sound, by the way. I've never tried anything with an unequal length header.

[RockCrusher]

If you have some old stock cams laying around you can regrind the base circle smaller and do all kinds of crazy stuff. You need LOTS of duration and more overlap to get what you want. Go at least 260* @ .050 and 102*-104*lobe separation angle. Don't bother with split duration timing or massive lift. I don't know how your buddy is going to grind the new lobes but it used tio be done with an oversized cam lobe model and a pantograph type grinder. Does he have a CNC grinder? That would be awesome.

RC
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[email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.

I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly.

[frostnettenes]

Thanks. He uses an ancient Berco that he basically got for nothing- he was cleaning out an old warehouse some years ago, and got it in addition to a bridgeport for tearing down some temporary offices in it. He welds up stockers, regrinds them, then sends them off for treating. He usually does only occasional briggs 5hp or something that's an easy change (OHV Fords and 2.2 Mopars, for example) just to see what it does. He has no formal training in it... it's just for learning and something to do when he gets some free time. So far, there's not been anything groundbreaking, but a heck of laugh here and there!

[RockCrusher]

You talkin like a 16 foot Berco 1500 cam grinder? Holy crap! That guy could make some bucks with that. Any clue what a machine like that is worth? Try like a hundred grand or more.

Damn!

RC
_________________
[email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.

I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly.

[madmike]

X2 with James it's gonna run hot Try dual Cannons,they sound like a cheby
_________________
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76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[bugnut68]

For clarification, my comments were not intended to be elitist by any stretch, but moreover friendly advice that, regardless of how new an idea it may seem now, odds are it's been tried before.
There's been a lot of talented minds at work on these VW engines we love to play with over the years, and while we still have an occasional breakthrough (i.e. the Red Baron breaking the seven-second barrier in the quarter mile), we're working with old technology.

I will backtrack a bit and admit that I'm not the type to experiment with stuff such as the original poster's current endeavor, but for me (and it's my personal preference) I'd rather not waste my time with things I don't know will work well or not simply due to limited time and lack of interest. Doesn't mean everyone has to adopt my philosophy by any means.

Good luck on the build, more power to you to go out and learn new things with your engine project!

[mark tucker]

also try a 2" balance tube on all of the intakes the reversion from that should give the wanted effect and probably wont hurt upper rpm power.. or build a common plenum for the intakes. I had duel holly bugsprays on top of some tall kdog type manifolds with an addptor so they were openplenum type and it had a chopy idle with fk8 cam, when I went to the idf style it smoothed right out like a stock cam. so cam it up, do the wedge ports and build a 3.5"wx6.5"L x2"tall box type plenum to bolt inbetween the carbs & manifolds. and your set. good luck !!! I wish I had a cam grinder I have been thinkin about making one for a few years now.

[pdub]

[[email protected]]

it's been my experience that when you try to design a car or engine that does everything, you wind up with one that does nothing WELL.

Despite my sarcasm, I am trying to help.
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[Alexander_Monday]

It depends on the area under the curve and timing of the overlap period vs crank angle, rod length to a very slight degree, runner volume, and plenum design (or lack of it with isolated runners and one throttle per cylinder). If my math and imagination dyno is still good, the cam you listed would have negligable (5 degrees) overlap with those spec's and would purr like a kitten at idle and fall on its face early. But it would certainly not be the first time in my 50 years that I have been wrong. I am from the "Show Me" state, so go for it.

But.... (just my 2 cents, not knocking what you are doing) I would take a different approach to achieve your goal.

If I understand correctly, your main goal is to have an engine that has a rough idle, but not have to rev high to achieve torque that would make for a narrow and high rpm HP band.

Have you ever had a car with an EGR valve that was stuck open? Causes the reversion you are looking for, but not exactly like you want with a factory EGR sytem with one EGR valve. I would build conventional for a wide torque band (lots of threads on this, so I won't rehash), but build a bastard EGR system that would work the opposite of normal. You would want to have an individual EGR valve for each intake / exhaust and open them at idle and close them off idle. You could also build a manual override to close them always or even to adjust the closing point. You could also adjust the amount of recirculation as well.
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