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Yet another aux battery install - PICS but not verbose
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singler3360
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject: Yet another aux battery install - PICS but not verbose Reply with quote

After 6 mos. of study and deliberation, it's time I give back to the Samba community with yet another version of MY AUX. BATTERY INSTALL. My inquiry started here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=355311&highlight=
many months ago. A big thanks to all those who posted and PM'd during this process. I hope my pics fill in some gaps from those other threads out there on this subject.
**********************************************************
MATERIALS:
Werker 44Ah AGM deep cycle battery bought at BatteriesPlus installed behind drivers seat
Yandina C100 isolator/combiner
BlueSea 6 fuse aux. panel
8' 6ga. wire (red)
4' 6ga. wire (black)
1 inline fuse holder
1 80A glass fuse for holder
15' 10ga. wire (red)
1' coolant hose
**********************************************************
EDIT: I've replaced the rubber grommets originally used to protect the wires running thru the sheet metal with coolant hose as a protective sleeve. I.D. large enough to slide the 6ga. wire thru and O.D. small enough to slip thru the 3/4" hole in the sheet metal. I feel much better with this modification.
**********************************************************
Main battery compartment with 6ga. lead going thru grommet-protected hole to Yandina. Yandina, Inc. says 8ga. would have sufficed. Tencentlife recommends a 400A Class T fuse be placed near the positive pole of the starter batt. (I haven't done that yet).
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Wire run from main battery, under aisle carpet, and into aux. compartment. Not shown is conduit later installed to protect this wire.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

**********************************************************
EDIT: In order to use the coolant hose protective sleeve idea described above, a new 3/4" hole was drilled in the aux. battery compartment and the 6ga. lead from the starter battery was rerouted thru this new opening.
**********************************************************
Aux. battery side of aisle run, showing 6ga. wire from main battery going under carpet and through hole used by the wires going to stock relay and seat belt indicator. Not shown is wire protection thru this hole.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Black box is Yandina. Red 6ga. from main battery seen coming in on left and butt-spliced to one of the red wires from the Yandina.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Addition of 80A inline fuse holder to be positioned between aux. battery and aux. fuse panel. Notice stock fridge/sink water pump/kitchen LED relay kept as is - I didn't want to use up another fuse location on the aux. panel since I tore out the Dometic fridge awhile ago.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Everything in place. 10ga. wire can be seen running through the aux. compartment, behind kitchen cabinets and to aux. fuse panel. This wire comes from a splice connection in the dash to the stock cig. lighter lead and under the carpet/floor board between the seats. In a late model Westy, pulling the #3 fuse in the main panel under the steering wheel converts the cig. lighter/interior lights/stereo to aux. battery power. Easy to convert back to stock config. too It worked! Blue raft repair material used to insulate lid, also used to line bottom of aux. and main battery compartments.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Aux. fuse panel mounted under sink cabinet (out of the way of small hands) with 6ga. lead from aux. battery and 6ga. ground wire back to grounding bolt in aux. compartment.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

My plans for the fuse panel locations are:
#1 - front dash cig. lighter/interior lights/stereo (shown)
#2 - 12v receptacle mounted low in rear bench seat area - right side
#3 - 12v receptacle mounted low in rear bench seat area - left side
#4 - two 12v receptacles wired in series mounted high in the bench seat area for gooseneck LED lamps
#5 - future home of TruckFridge or equivalent
#6 - future home of Propex heater


Last edited by singler3360 on Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:55 pm; edited 3 times in total
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EL31415
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for sharing
I think 6ga is over kill but what a great peace of mind knowing no bottle neck and that the aux battery can suck all the power it needs to recharge
I use this table to determine the Wire Gauge sizing

http://www.offroaders.com/tech/12-volt-wire-gauge-amps.htm
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iiigoiii
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EL31415 wrote:
I use this table to determine the Wire Gauge sizing

http://www.offroaders.com/tech/12-volt-wire-gauge-amps.htm


GOOD LORD. as you know i'm one of the ones always railing against overkill in sizing wires, but even i have to question seriously the wisdom of using short runs of 10Ga wire for 200A?!?!?! 18Ga for 30A?!?!

true, it's all about resistance of the wire, and in short runs there's less, but...

am i misreading that table? have the offroaders damaged their brains from hitting one too many bumps?

edit: there's even another chart, linked on that page (12 Volt Wiring - Distance and Amps to Gauge Chart) that contradicts this one...!
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PDXWesty
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wire sizing charts need to be based on a allowable voltage drop (usually 3%-10%) which isn't stated in any of these tables. I think 6ga is fine. I believe I used 8ga on mine.

I would trust this table more.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amps-wire-gauge-d_730.html

This table is provided by West Marine:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/Marine-Wire.htm

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climberjohn
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Singler,

Thanks for this post. It looks like you did a nice job. My aux battery wiring has turned into quite the spaghetti pile, and your post gave me some ideas to clean it up.

Thanks!
-CJ
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singler3360
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I were to do this over again, I believe I would use 6ga. from the starter battery to a fast-blow ClassT fuse as Tencentlife recommends, then from this inline fuse run 8ga. to the Yandina (as an email I received from Yandina suggests for longer runs). The 6ga. wires between the aux. battery and the aux. fuse panel may not be overkill, considering the potential overall pull of devices on each circuit simultaneously. Because of the 12v receptacles, I cannot guarantee the types of devices plugged in at once. At any rate, running 6ga. wire between the two battery boxes was a PITA; 8 ga. would have been much easier I think. I hope these observations accomplish two things: 1. check my own thinking and installation, 2. help someone spec out their own install in the future.
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singler3360
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

climberjohn wrote:
Singler,

Thanks for this post. It looks like you did a nice job. My aux battery wiring has turned into quite the spaghetti pile, and your post gave me some ideas to clean it up.

Thanks!
-CJ


Excellent. Glad it could be of some help. I've learned from your posts elsewhere as well. This Samba forum works pretty well!

I am interested why I ended up with more wires (or conduit) running into the kitchen cabinet near the stock fuse panel than other pics I've seen. If memory serves, I think I've seen as little as one conduit in other install pics; I have three.
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Julian13
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hasa any of the small minority, that are Eurovan drivers, put an aux system in the rear cuddy under the MV seat? I am thinking of doing so but wonder if the space is sufficient.

If not where else is a good location?
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RC82
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:42 pm    Post subject: Question Reply with quote

When hooking up a battery charger, does it work if I were to hook up the positive lead to the circuit panel with a fuse and ground the negative lead to the frame?
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singler3360
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Question Reply with quote

RC82 wrote:
When hooking up a battery charger, does it work if I were to hook up the positive lead to the circuit panel with a fuse and ground the negative lead to the frame?


Since none of the gurus have picked up on this yet, I'll respond. I've seen elsewhere in the Samba that it is better to run the positive lead from the charger directly to the battery rather than thru the aux. fuse panel. At least that is how most schematics have it. Why exactly I don't know. Gurus?
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hiram6
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have both positive and negative connections from my battery charger going directly to my aux battery posts. I use a "battery combiner" which, as I understand it, is basically what the Yandina is.

I wired my system up based on the instructions that came with my battery combiner, which I purchased from West Marine, but is made by...guess who...Yandina! It's a more heavy-duty version than what is used by the OP, but it was on a close-out table at WM and I paid less than $50.

With the charger connected to my aux battery directly, the way mine works is this:

(1) the charger will charge my aux battery first, until it reaches a certain charge level, I think 13 volts, but I could be wrong
(2) the combiner then clicks to the combined setting and the charger begins having a charging effect on the starting battery, probably limited by wire gauge running over to the starting battery, I don't remember what gauge I used. This thread is making me consider investigating an upgrade.
(3) when driving, of course the combiner works the other way, with the starting battery getting priority, the the aux battery.


I also wired in a control switch so I can force it to a setting. A three position toggle switch lets me choose combined, separated, or automatic operation.
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singler3360
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiram6 wrote:

With the charger connected to my aux battery directly, the way mine works is this:

(1) the charger will charge my aux battery first, until it reaches a certain charge level, I think 13 volts, but I could be wrong
(2) the combiner then clicks to the combined setting and the charger begins having a charging effect on the starting battery, probably limited by wire gauge running over to the starting battery, I don't remember what gauge I used. This thread is making me consider investigating an upgrade.
(3) when driving, of course the combiner works the other way, with the starting battery getting priority, the the aux battery.


Good explanation. Is the SurePower bi-directional like the Yandina also? Just curious.
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iiigoiii
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Question Reply with quote

RC82 wrote:
When hooking up a battery charger, does it work if I were to hook up the positive lead to the circuit panel with a fuse and ground the negative lead to the frame?


i can think of only two considerations of off the top of my head on this.

first, there's a relatively small difference in voltage between a fully charged battery and a somewhat discharged one. if the charging path goes through several connectors and a fuse on the panel side, several ground wires and corroded connections on the ground side, not to mention a length of wire, the resistance in all those will knock down the charging voltage somewhat, and you won't get a full charge in the battery.

second, i suppose you could blow a fuse between the charger and the battery if the battery is discharged enough and the charger is strong enough, although most chargers put out relatively few amps.
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JeffRobenolt
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where did you get that aux fuse panel? I haven't had any luck finding them local.
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PDXWesty
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got mine on Ebay for $20. It looked something like this:

http://bluesea.com/category/5/21/productline/126

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=blue+sea+fuse+block

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servle.../0/0?N=377 710&Ne=0&Ntt=fuse block&Ntk=Primary Search&Ntx=mode matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=fuse block&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5002&subdeptNum=9&classNum=295
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Alaric.H
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just put this Yandina in a van.

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wenholzm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just completed an installation of a second battery, and was very similar to the pictures and explanation of this original post, although where I live I could not find a Yandina 100, so I put in a 200 amp Solenoid which charges both batteries when the ignition key is "on". After reading more I am concerned that I might have problems. I have put a volt meter on this aux battery and driven around monitoring, it seems that I get to 13.0 - 13.1 V and does not go any higher. This summer I will be traveling and able to buy a Yandina, should I change the solenoid for a Yandina 100? The solenoid was only $15, so it is not that big a deal. I am more concerned about ptotecting my $170 gel battery.

BTW I also put two solenoids (same 200 amp) on the headlamps and wired direct to the battery, big boost in my night travel.

Best to all Mark
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Classicvibe
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey SIngler, great post and thank you for the great pics. Could you talk a little about what your requirement were for this system? I mean, what were your needs, what were you out to accomplish? Once again, great work!
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singler3360
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Classicvibe wrote:
Hey SIngler, great post and thank you for the great pics. Could you talk a little about what your requirement were for this system? I mean, what were your needs, what were you out to accomplish? Once again, great work!


My requirements were to get the stereo and interior lights off the main battery, and install three more 12V sockets in the cabin area along with 2-3 more hardwired light fixtures.
I posted those install pics here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4609263#4609263
I have long-range plans to install a TruckFridge (or equivalent) and a Propex heater. I left space on the aux. fuse panel for those circuits, but I now know those applicances should not run off the Werker 44AH. So down the road a ways, I'm looking at adding a second aux. battery or replacing the Werker with a larger one and relocating. For now we're content to use a cooler behind passenger seat. Best of luck with your installs and be sure to post your own lessons learned/insights/pics. I'm glad my posts can be of help in getting started, if nothing else.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PDXWesty wrote:
I got mine on Ebay for $20. It looked something like this:

http://bluesea.com/category/5/21/productline/126

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=blue+sea+fuse+block

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servle.../0/0?N=377 710&Ne=0&Ntt=fuse block&Ntk=Primary Search&Ntx=mode matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=fuse block&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5002&subdeptNum=9&classNum=295



I noticed Blue Sea sells a fuse block WITH a negative bus and WITHOUT a negative bus. Will either work for an aux battery hookup?
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