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BlackDogVan
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2007
Posts: 855
Location: Vancouver Island
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 Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Vintagemotion, you'll be just fine as long as you DONT plumb your oil return like this!
edit - since the turbo is flipped its not as bad as stock return routing...
Last edited by BlackDogVan on Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vintagemotion
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Kleve Germany; Atlanta Georgia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: Vanagon M-TDI conversion Oil pump question |
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My general question about the oil pump was answered before and I was under the impression that the whole oil pump must be changed for the Vangon conversion.
After I disassembled my 98 AHU TDI motor I discovered that the pump appears to be essentially the same except the top. Here my additional questions:
1. It looks like I could use the original TDI oil pump by utilizing the top with suction extension / bypass valve from the 1.6D Vanagon pump. Is there any reason why this would not work?
2. Does anyone make different suction extension for the TDI pump that adapt after the bypass valve?
3.Any other recommendation regarding the oil pump.
_________________
82 orange Diesel Westy
AHU conversion (mechanical with stock JX pump)
5 Speed ASS
CLK Wheels 215/70/16 |
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westyventures
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2306
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| BlackDogVan wrote: |
Vintagemotion, you'll be just fine as long as you DONT plumb your oil return like this!
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Not really too bad, as it is going downhill and above the oil fill line. However, the fitting at the block would have been better a 45. FWIW, all of mine use the original banjo fitting there - I just remove the old hose and replace with the SS braided hose commonly used in dry sump systems. |
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westyventures
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004
Posts: 2306
Location: Oregon Outback
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon M-TDI conversion Oil pump question |
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| vintagemotion wrote: |
My general question about the oil pump was answered before and I was under the impression that the whole oil pump must be changed for the Vangon conversion.
After I disassembled my 98 AHU TDI motor I discovered that the pump appears to be essentially the same except the top. Here my additional questions:
1. It looks like I could use the original TDI oil pump by utilizing the top with suction extension / bypass valve from the 1.6D Vanagon pump. Is there any reason why this would not work?
2. Does anyone make different suction extension for the TDI pump that adapt after the bypass valve?
3.Any other recommendation regarding the oil pump. |
Unless the engine is super-low miles, I would recommend buying a diesel Vanagon oil pump, new, from Bus Depot or whoever has em. If the engine is low miles, you can cut and modify the oil pickup tube to imitate the original diesel van configuration. I do this by first installing an old diesel van pump pickup and making a template/jig to show where the modified tube needs to go, exactly. A little accuracy and perfect welds and this method is fine. I would not recommend re-using an old diesel van pickup section, as many have shrapnel embedded in the pressure relief valve from past blowups. Been there, not worth the hassle when new pumps are just over $100, or modding the newer one with larger relief valve is easy. But the new pump is the 'best' way. |
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vintagemotion
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Kleve Germany; Atlanta Georgia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone know the difference between the original 1.6 Diesel oil pump and the 1.6 TD oil pump.
Does anyone have the OEM part numbers for the D and TD pump?
_________________
82 orange Diesel Westy
AHU conversion (mechanical with stock JX pump)
5 Speed ASS
CLK Wheels 215/70/16 |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17155
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:45 am Post subject: |
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I checked ETKA for a 84 Jetta. It looks like the pump number is the same for the 1.6 NA and the 1.6 TD. OE 068 115 105 AN. ETKA is not always correct.
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9937
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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The gears were bigger in the TD pumps because the turbo uses some of the oil supply. Replacement pumps may all be the bigger gears now, so the same new type replacement pump can work for both. The ETKA only shows current replacement part numbers, not what originally came installed. Just because the same part number is now being shown for 2 different engines doesn't mean they used the same part back then so reverse logic can't be applied.
Mark
| vintagemotion wrote: |
Does anyone know the difference between the original 1.6 Diesel oil pump and the 1.6 TD oil pump.
Does anyone have the OEM part numbers for the D and TD pump? |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
| The gears were bigger in the TD pumps because the turbo uses some of the oil supply. |
All of the solid lifter 1.6TD engines installed in anything other than vanagons were fitted with 30mm pumps as were a couple of years of the 1.6TD hydraulic engines before they switched to the 36mm pumps somewhere around '88. I do not know if the original 1.6TD vanagon oil pumps were 30 or 36mm. It is true that all the replacement 1.6TD vanagon pumps are 36mm. |
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fairweather
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2007
Posts: 663
Location: Aspen, CO
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that this could be better, if I had thought about it I would had drilled/tapped a new hole at a 45* angle next to the original. It does have about 4" of head as it is and goes from a -AN4 supply to -AN10 drain.
| Quote: |
| the original banjo fitting there |
I am going to change it to this^^
| BlackDogVan wrote: |
Vintagemotion, you'll be just fine as long as you DONT plumb your oil return like this!
edit - since the turbo is flipped its not as bad as stock return routing...
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vintagemotion
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Kleve Germany; Atlanta Georgia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:05 pm Post subject: Finally the TDI is up and running in my Vanagon. |
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Last weekend I installed the motor and got it running (not driving yet) with a JX pump / no turbo for now until I find my final M-TDI pump.
All in all the TDI conversion was relatively easy with the help from this forum. – Thanks
Next steps:
- Find rear section of shifter rod and fabricate shifter linkage for my 5 speed (ASS)
- Test drive 
- fabricate gas routing for turbo / intake
- Figure out how to manipulate the glow plug relay to shorten glow time
_________________
82 orange Diesel Westy
AHU conversion (mechanical with stock JX pump)
5 Speed ASS
CLK Wheels 215/70/16 |
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Aaron
Samba Luddite
Joined: November 20, 2002
Posts: 1838
Location: WA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| any updates? |
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vintagemotion
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Kleve Germany; Atlanta Georgia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| Aaron wrote: |
| any updates? |
The Vanagon is up and driving without turbo and on a JX pump (1.1mm pump stroke at TDC) The (T)DI has enough power to bring the Westy up to 70MPH in 5th gear and 215/70/16 tires.
Slowwwwww acceleration !!
For the shift linkage I actually ended up using the front half of the 4speed and back half of the 5 speed and fabricated a connection. Works great.
The Vanagons were made with Turbo Diesels for Europe and a found all stock Turbo parts, hardware (JX). I may go this route instead of custom made parts. Not sure yet.
I will have to get or build an M-TDI pump.
_________________
82 orange Diesel Westy
AHU conversion (mechanical with stock JX pump)
5 Speed ASS
CLK Wheels 215/70/16 |
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vintagemotion
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Kleve Germany; Atlanta Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: 33 MPG with trailer |
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Last weekend I pulled my race bike (BMW R75/5) with tools and spare parts from Atlanta to the Barber Race track. This was a 300 mile round trip. I was surprised when I filled up with less than 10 Gallons!! The hills were tuff without the Turbo but all in all it worked out well. So far I'm happy with the conversion. Going past 65 MPH creates an unpleasant resonance that is pretty loud.
_________________
82 orange Diesel Westy
AHU conversion (mechanical with stock JX pump)
5 Speed ASS
CLK Wheels 215/70/16
Last edited by vintagemotion on Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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turbovans
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Medford/Ashalnd OR, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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New at this on theSamba..
if this is going to the right guy ..
Not practical to try to turbo a NA 1.6. Engine is too delicate for that.
1.6 TD block is much better,
and I have one for sale..
a running one actually. Don't know if it's been bored out or not ..
probobly should be rebuilt. Located in Southern Oregon.
the internals are not the same, NA to TD.
TD engine has stronger rods and wrist pins, and piston oil squirtes.
The one I have is a non-hydraulic lifter block.
I also have a 1.9 NA brand new head for sale. Trying to find time to post that ad , lol.
You want to move up from the stock engine if you can. The easy way to improve the desperately low stock 82 diesel vanagon gearing is to put in a DK code trans from an air-cooled Vanagon ...nice bolt-in and works decently .....you can cruise at 65 nicely with that gear box.
1.9 engines are better ..but harder to find and cost more.
a good 1.6 TD isn't 'too bad.'
Scott
www.turbovans.com |
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DAIZEE
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 7552
Location: Greater Toronto Area Ontario West Side
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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I'm real sorry I read this thread.
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold) |
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vintagemotion
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Kleve Germany; Atlanta Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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The conversion was done with an AHU TDI using a JX pump and no Turbo (for now)
| turbovans wrote: |
New at this on theSamba..
if this is going to the right guy ..
Not practical to try to turbo a NA 1.6. Engine is too delicate for that.
1.6 TD block is much better,
and I have one for sale..
a running one actually. Don't know if it's been bored out or not ..
probobly should be rebuilt. Located in Southern Oregon.
the internals are not the same, NA to TD.
TD engine has stronger rods and wrist pins, and piston oil squirtes.
The one I have is a non-hydraulic lifter block.
I also have a 1.9 NA brand new head for sale. Trying to find time to post that ad , lol.
You want to move up from the stock engine if you can. The easy way to improve the desperately low stock 82 diesel vanagon gearing is to put in a DK code trans from an air-cooled Vanagon ...nice bolt-in and works decently .....you can cruise at 65 nicely with that gear box.
1.9 engines are better ..but harder to find and cost more.
a good 1.6 TD isn't 'too bad.'
Scott
www.turbovans.com |
_________________
82 orange Diesel Westy
AHU conversion (mechanical with stock JX pump)
5 Speed ASS
CLK Wheels 215/70/16 |
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