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Winches and leave your wifes out of it
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Cold Steel
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GWTWTLW wrote:
Somebody has no sense of humor...



Geez no kidding that was pretty funny stuff.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My vote and what I Personally carry is the Griphoist (Tirfor Winch)
it can work from either end or even someone else's vehicle when you(them) are rolled down into a ditch or water hazard.

I have a Warn #8k winch, it's mounted to a 2" reciever tube, I use it on my equipment trailer, but it's a PITA to use for recovery.
and how long does your pattery last?
can your vehicle even still run?

sure it's more manual labor, but sheesh get off the sofa it's fairly easy to operate, I even had my senior citizen mom pull a van (up onto the equipment trailer) because she was chiding me while using it.

Ohh and I can take it with my Other vehicle(s) for what ever the need.

lastly Tirfor winches are rated for verticle load, not just a horizontal rolling load. and suprisingly GoWesty has the best price on the whole internet hands down.. thiers is an ARB unit.

for those that think a button is the only way, best of luck to ya...
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JoeVanagon
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your battery will last for at least 1 to 2 full length pulls, but you should always use a winch with the engine running. A tirfor is a great option, even a come-a-long, or a hi-lift lack can be used as a winch in a pinch. Any recovery option is better than none. A shovel or maxtrax's are great too. Usually when you get stuck, it only take a few feet, or even inches, until you can get traction again and continue on or turn around.
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Jon_slider
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the link otiswesty
here is a level deeper in that website, direct to the winch page
http://www.syncro-services.com/mitte_modi_neu_eng_Bergung.html

I have one of the GoWesty/ARB Griphoist style hand winches. If anyone wants to buy it, PM me.
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

syncrodoka wrote:
Quote:
How will that work if you are the only one there?
If there is nobody there I go old school and break out the shovel, highlift or maxtrax as needed. Not pretty but it gets the job done. Wink

Yeah.. I gotta agree here.

Winches are great for pulling other people out without getting your hands too dirty. They can be handy for pulling one's self back out of a tight spot... sure.

But if mounted on the front.. you really need to be thinking about why you are pulling yourself thru something that you may have to get back thru on the way out, anyway.

And in a pinch the muscle-powered jobbers can get you out of most "stuck" situations.
No. I wouldn't want to be hoisting my van up a shear cliff with one.. but I am not seeing much of that type of activity anymore... and only witnessed it once with some old school jeep guys, anyway. Those guys were nuts.. the types who would go wheelin' after a first snow when more was threatening.


A winch is a nice accessory.. but they really don't get used that much. And, dare I say it.. if someone is pushing thier vehicle to the point where a 9k lb powered winch is required for self recovery, perhaps they ought to be traveling with a buddy vehicle anyway?


I'd not install a winch on a Vanaogn until I had paid for and installed just about EVERY other upgrade on my wish list, first.

I have a come-a-long and purchase blocks, hilift, and usually carry chains and shovels, and yank'em straps .
The day that doesn't get me unstuck, I'll look harder at spending a couple grand for a proper powered winch setup.


What next?
Portable welding equipment on board? Smile
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danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Orbitald
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon_slider wrote:
thanks for the link otiswesty
here is a level deeper in that website, direct to the winch page
http://www.syncro-services.com/mitte_modi_neu_eng_Bergung.html


And here is their Winch Mounting Manual PDF (500kb file) which shows their 4 ton Jagdwagen winch base repo mounted with 4 bolts though the front deformation panel, pretty much the same as the Gary Lee mount.

http://www.syncro-services.com/HP-Parts/Winch%20mounting%20manual.pdf
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Californio
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always wondered about the usefulness of a permanently-mounted winch anywhere on the vehicle. Seems like you could get into that one position where it just wouldn't pull you out and then what? What if you need to move straight sideways for example? Better to go with the GW hand winch or even a few come alongs it would seem.
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Californio wrote:
What if you need to move straight sideways for example? Better to go with the GW hand winch or even a few come alongs it would seem.

Turning blocks.. properly rated of course.
Some tree protection straps.. sand anchors. etc.

And absolutely..
I'd not sell those manual winches off.. just because a shiney new Warn is hanging out front.

I'd pack them away for emergency use.. Can be used to stabilize a teetering vehicle while working with the powered winch, as an example.
Or your engine is drowned/kaput and batteries are drained Shocked
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-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"

"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All reasones why my Warn #8k is on an equipment trailer and my Griphoist is used for moving things anyplace else. it's really not alot of manual effort. For the Tirfor that is, you won't catch me using some $100 farm jack because I'm cheap they aren't safe for farm use but I understand why they're necessary for farm equipment.
and Yes I've operated both, farm jacks & farm equipment..


j_dirge wrote:
Californio wrote:
What if you need to move straight sideways for example? Better to go with the GW hand winch or even a few come alongs it would seem.

Turning blocks.. properly rated of course.
Some tree protection straps.. sand anchors. etc.

And absolutely..
I'd not sell those manual winches off.. just because a shiney new Warn is hanging out front.

I'd pack them away for emergency use.. Can be used to stabilize a teetering vehicle while working with the powered winch, as an example.
Or your engine is drowned/kaput and batteries are drained Shocked

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August 22/23/24 Westcott beach state park. (sites nearest the lake loop)
Sept 20/21 Moffitt beach DEC at Speculator, NY (sites 238-248 down on the end)
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JED THE SPREAD
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fitted a winch to my doka and found it so heavy and mounted at the front of the van to far out that the extra weight just levered the front of the van nose down. Any bumpy terrain was horrible as the front would just slam into the floor and boing around over the high bits. I took it off in the end but am currently fitting it to another Syncro miles differently, I will post some picture up when its done along with some spring tricks Wink

jed
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Dimitrios
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

> fitted a winch to my doka and found it so heavy and mounted at the >front of the van to far out that the extra weight just levered the front of >the van nose down. Any bumpy terrain was horrible as the front would >just slam into the floor and boing around over the high bits. I took it off >in the end but am currently fitting it to another Syncro miles differently, >I will post some picture up when its done along with some spring tricks

This is expected.It does happen even in my MB GD290 it needs spring spacers to control the added weight and to restore the height...If you do serious offroading the winch is the most valuable part of the car.A must have item because if you need it for just one time in a bad situation it the middle of nowhere you apreciate its value.If you just want to put one for show then leave it...Just my 02.
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And here is their Winch Mounting Manual PDF (500kb file) which shows their 4 ton Jagdwagen winch base repo mounted with 4 bolts though the front deformation panel

That is a interesting read. About half way down in their install instructions they say to install 4- 10 mm. rods to the subframe for a winch over 3 tons. This requires cutting a passthrough hole in the front of the van and cutting the bottom edge of the radiator. So if you actually want to use it you need to do some surgery to support the winch plate.
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Orbitald
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

syncrodoka wrote:
Quote:
And here is their Winch Mounting Manual PDF (500kb file) which shows their 4 ton Jagdwagen winch base repo mounted with 4 bolts though the front deformation panel

That is a interesting read. About half way down in their install instructions they say to install 4- 10 mm. rods to the subframe for a winch over 3 tons. This requires cutting a passthrough hole in the front of the van and cutting the bottom edge of the radiator. So if you actually want to use it you need to do some surgery to support the winch plate.


Well whatdoyaknow, is that two rods up and two rods down?
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well whatdoyaknow, is that two rods up and two rods down?
Page 5 of the instructions.
2 attach to the bottom of the vertical mounting bolts and attach to the subframe. The other 2 tie into the top of the vertical mounting bolts and go back at a angle to the subframe.
All this looks to be reinforcement to keep the winch bracket from ripping itself free of the front deformation panel. Shocked
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Alaric.H
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you get the one with the compressor you get 2 uses out of it those things push out 5 cfm they can run air tools and inflate boats and such.
Here is the one I take around with me.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Jon_slider
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont know how this winch is mounted, or whose van that is, but, I like it

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

http://tinyurl.com/26l7y3t

If the Van below had a front mounted winch, a hand winch, or a hilift in winch mode, it might have gotten out without a tow truck.. but winches only work if you have the foresight to bring it. Its hard to forget to bring a permanently mounted winch Smile

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3630033&highlight=snow#3630033
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon_slider wrote:

If the Van below had a front mounted winch, a hand winch, or a hilift in winch mode, it might have gotten out without a tow truck.. but winches only work if you have the foresight to bring it. Its hard to forget to bring a permanently mounted winch Smile

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3630033&highlight=snow#3630033

Or you might just rip a tree or two out by the roots.

I am not seeing a large enough trunk to confidently set a power OR hand winch to.
Maybe there's something off frame?

But thats a good point to bring up.. What do you do with either if there's nothing to set to? (rhetorical question)

There are MANY places where winches don't help much .. Like in deep sand on the beach... Or in desert areas... muddy meadows... You have to bury a tire or use an anchor of some sort.
Thats a LOT of work regardless powered or muscled winch.


FWIW.. A hand winch stows under the rear seat with plenty of room to spare. No reason to ever forget to bring it along.. Have had various types in most all my vehciles since I did my first trip to Baja in '82
Kind of like a spare tire and vehicle jack. Don't drive to the store without it.. much less offraod and into the wild.
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-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"

"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Alaric.H
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

j_dirge wrote:
Jon_slider wrote:

If the Van below had a front mounted winch, a hand winch, or a hilift in winch mode, it might have gotten out without a tow truck.. but winches only work if you have the foresight to bring it. Its hard to forget to bring a permanently mounted winch Smile

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3630033&highlight=snow#3630033

Or you might just rip a tree or two out by the roots.

I am not seeing a large enough trunk to confidently set a power OR hand winch to.
Maybe there's something off frame?

But thats a good point to bring up.. What do you do with either if there's nothing to set to? (rhetorical question)

There are MANY places where winches don't help much .. Like in deep sand on the beach... Or in desert areas... muddy meadows... You have to bury a tire or use an anchor of some sort.
Thats a LOT of work regardless powered or muscled winch.


FWIW.. A hand winch stows under the rear seat with plenty of room to spare. No reason to ever forget to bring it along.. Have had various types in most all my vehciles since I did my first trip to Baja in '82
Kind of like a spare tire and vehicle jack. Don't drive to the store without it.. much less offraod and into the wild.


Those trees are big enough to pull the van put I pull shrubs out around the house with my winch and I have to anchor the van to my GMC to keep it from sliding forward.My this could help http://pullpal.com/
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JED THE SPREAD
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As promised, here it is and no front heavy boinging around.... Their will be a clutch mod made so I can do it inside the van,

This weekends jobs include finishing off some very stylish checker plating bits I have been working on this week in the evenings, and mounting the winch I took off the doka.



I took the winch off the doka (seen below) because it is bloody heavy and with it mounted so far out at the front it acted like a leaver effect when going over dips and bumps. Especially with the weight of the bull bar too.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




So it sat in the hallway at home and the Mrs was getting the hump with keep looking at it sat there, and that gave me the push to do something with it. The Westy has some heavy duty springs fitted to the front and I fitted a set of these too, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...1901wt_907 that have stiffened the springs up some more ready for the extra weight.

This time I am going to mount it differently and because I have a drop down front bash plate, like this I can get to it if I need to.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.





Thats right its going much further back near towards the front wheels so i hope it wont boing around so much. I had Ian @ http:// www.holman-engineering.co.uk AKA SilverBullet to build a bracket for me to my design suggestions and winch position (up side down fitting) and he added the know how on how to fix all the metalwork together. It is just a base to start work from as it would be difficult just to build a one off bracket from scratch without any tweeks and to keep the costing down I dont mind doing the fitting, un fitting, cutting, fitting again and so on until it works pukka. Anyway this is it in its raw state,

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




I am going to be feeding the cable through the front beam so the first adjustment to the bracket was to cut abit out so the cable could be fed through with the cable being fed on the underside of the spool thus putting less stress on the winch mounting points than if it was over the spool. Plus it lines up on the underside

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.





I cut a hole in the front beam,

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.







And then one abit smaller out of the bumper,

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




The winch was then mounted to see how it all lined up,

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




Bolted the bumper back on along with the rollers,

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




And popped some checker plate strips on the back to match the front,

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.






jed
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JED THE SPREAD
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well its finished now and wired up and bash plate back on,

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




All the control gubbins is inside at my feet,

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




And the controller lead just plugs in this so I can use it inside,

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




Or outside,

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




jed
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