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ddrspeedy Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Houston
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:48 pm Post subject: Gland Nut Removal |
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Is there any harm in removing the gland nut with an impact wrench instead of a 5' long cheater bar?
Thanks,
Danny
'74 Super |
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Viande Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2008 Posts: 1719 Location: GA
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Not as long as you use the correct socket, or at least it has never been a problem for me. I do heat them first just in case they used the correct Loctite. _________________ Bobby
New Items In Stock, NOS & OEM Seals,Parts and Terminals
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The bitter taste of poor quality lingers long after the joy of the cheap price fades away. |
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Max Welton Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003 Posts: 10697 Location: Black Forest, CO
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Gary Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002 Posts: 17069 Location: 127.0.0.1
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Torquemeister. _________________ West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
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pafree Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2005 Posts: 2298 Location: dayton, the one in texas
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Icy wrote: |
Torquemeister. |
x2 best vw tool that i have bought and a flywheel lock. my 10 year old say it makes him look strong when he pops them loose.
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mnussbau Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2006 Posts: 4589 Location: Central Maryland
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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pafree wrote: |
Icy wrote: |
Torquemeister. |
x2 best vw tool that i have bought and a flywheel lock. my 10 year old say it makes him look strong when he pops them loose.
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x3, my 10-year old (at the time) daughter undid the gland nut on my vert with a 3/8" socket wrench exactly like in the photo. _________________ Mike
Sold my sedan
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CHEVYJEFF Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2009 Posts: 61 Location: WYLIE TEXAS
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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:53 am Post subject: |
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Here is a pic of my method. couple things to note. A 1 7/16" 3/4" drive 7 dollar socket will work in place of the 36mm. I could not find a 36mm socket in a 3/4" drive only 1/2" drive local. I snapped a 1/2" drive breaker bar w/ 3'-0" pipe on it easily. Mounting the angle in the vice off edge of bench keeps the motor from twisting. I used my 3/4" drive harbor freight special torque wrench. took about 350 lbs to break it loose.
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partonkevin Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2003 Posts: 478 Location: McMinnville, TN
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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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CHEVYJEFF wrote: |
Here is a pic of my method. couple things to note. A 1 7/16" 3/4" drive 7 dollar socket will work in place of the 36mm. I could not find a 36mm socket in a 3/4" drive only 1/2" drive local. I snapped a 1/2" drive breaker bar w/ 3'-0" pipe on it easily. Mounting the angle in the vice off edge of bench keeps the motor from twisting. I used my 3/4" drive harbor freight special torque wrench. took about 350 lbs to break it loose.
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Flywheel lock AND an angle bar! That's what I need to do. I've pulled my engine twice trying to get the gland nut off to replace that leaky main seal. I failed each time. First time I ended up with a bent and twisted angle bar and a snapped-off snap-on breaker bar! Next time I tried an electric impact wrench AND an air impact wrench. Even with a bit of heat on the nut I had no luck. |
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CHEVYJEFF Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2009 Posts: 61 Location: WYLIE TEXAS
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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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havent came across to many fasteners that were this tight. axil nuts were easy compared to this sumbitch. The only other nut this damn tight was the the harmonic balance bolt on my duramax diesel. I felt relieved when it broke loose. I thought I was going to flip the workbench, motor and all before it let go. |
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Vinnems Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2008 Posts: 1181 Location: Simi Valley, CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Add another vote for the Torquemeister. It's a pretty common tool in VW garages, you could probably find someone nearby who will let you borrow theirs. Mines always available for anyone nearby. |
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Gary Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002 Posts: 17069 Location: 127.0.0.1
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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:57 am Post subject: |
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partonkevin wrote: |
CHEVYJEFF wrote: |
Here is a pic of my method. couple things to note. A 1 7/16" 3/4" drive 7 dollar socket will work in place of the 36mm. I could not find a 36mm socket in a 3/4" drive only 1/2" drive local. I snapped a 1/2" drive breaker bar w/ 3'-0" pipe on it easily. Mounting the angle in the vice off edge of bench keeps the motor from twisting. I used my 3/4" drive harbor freight special torque wrench. took about 350 lbs to break it loose.
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Flywheel lock AND an angle bar! That's what I need to do. I've pulled my engine twice trying to get the gland nut off to replace that leaky main seal. I failed each time. First time I ended up with a bent and twisted angle bar and a snapped-off snap-on breaker bar! Next time I tried an electric impact wrench AND an air impact wrench. Even with a bit of heat on the nut I had no luck. |
Heating the gland nut is a no-no, but it's your engine so have at it.
Overall, I can never understand the appeal of these Rube-Goldberg methods of removing the gland nut and axle nuts considering the amount of torque required to reinstall them. Sure, one can play the "guesstimate game", but if the gland nut isn't torqued to the correct specification, it'll come loose and everything will go to hell.
If you're unwilling or unable to buy a simple tool that will get the job done safely and correctly, then you have no business working on your own vehicle. Over the years, I've seen a lot of posts from people who wanted to prove the right tool wasn't needed and that they could do it. Shortly after, they'd return with a tale of woe with how everything fell apart or got torn up. I have zero sympathy for people like that. _________________ West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
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candymustang65 Banned
Joined: January 11, 2010 Posts: 1674 Location: APPLE VALLEY
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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Most commonly people will make the mistake of useing just a Fly Wheel lock and a 4 by 4 block of wood under the Head .
Then around 1 - 3 or 4 thousand mile's or so they wonder why there head's are loose and have hammerd hell out of the head fly cutt and case decking .
This method stretche's the head stud's !
Helping hand is a must have item for this procedure .
Sean |
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partonkevin Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2003 Posts: 478 Location: McMinnville, TN
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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Gary wrote: |
partonkevin wrote: |
CHEVYJEFF wrote: |
Here is a pic of my method. couple things to note. A 1 7/16" 3/4" drive 7 dollar socket will work in place of the 36mm. I could not find a 36mm socket in a 3/4" drive only 1/2" drive local. I snapped a 1/2" drive breaker bar w/ 3'-0" pipe on it easily. Mounting the angle in the vice off edge of bench keeps the motor from twisting. I used my 3/4" drive harbor freight special torque wrench. took about 350 lbs to break it loose.
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Flywheel lock AND an angle bar! That's what I need to do. I've pulled my engine twice trying to get the gland nut off to replace that leaky main seal. I failed each time. First time I ended up with a bent and twisted angle bar and a snapped-off snap-on breaker bar! Next time I tried an electric impact wrench AND an air impact wrench. Even with a bit of heat on the nut I had no luck. |
Heating the gland nut is a no-no, but it's your engine so have at it.
Overall, I can never understand the appeal of these Rube-Goldberg methods of removing the gland nut and axle nuts considering the amount of torque required to reinstall them. Sure, one can play the "guesstimate game", but if the gland nut isn't torqued to the correct specification, it'll come loose and everything will go to hell.
If you're unwilling or unable to buy a simple tool that will get the job done safely and correctly, then you have no business working on your own vehicle. Over the years, I've seen a lot of posts from people who wanted to prove the right tool wasn't needed and that they could do it. Shortly after, they'd return with a tale of woe with how everything fell apart or got torn up. I have zero sympathy for people like that. |
What's the simple tool that will get the job done safely and correctly? Is it the ..."Torquemeister? I've never seen this tool in repair manuals or factory brochures. I may not need to be working on any of my two dozen vehicles since I don't have this tool, but can't I just use my 3/4" drive tools to remove it and then torque it back down with my name-brand yearly calibrated torque wrench? |
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mnussbau Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2006 Posts: 4589 Location: Central Maryland
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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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partonkevin wrote: |
can't I just use my 3/4" drive tools to remove it and then torque it back down with my name-brand yearly calibrated torque wrench? |
You can, if your torque wrench goes up to 250 ft lb. Personally, I use a torque meister with a 3/8" torque wrench (75 ft lb capacity set to 30 ft lb) and 11mm socket. Some feel it's the wrong tool, but it makes the job trivially easy. I love it. _________________ Mike
Sold my sedan
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61SNRF Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009 Posts: 4657 Location: Whittier 90602
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Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Sure, to answer the OP question, you can use an air impact to remove a gland nut, if gun is strong enough.
You can also heat a Gland nut, once. The heat will no doubt change the hardness as well as burn the grease and felt ring out of the needle bearing.
BTW there is no mention in the manuals or need for a locking compound, that is only for your own piece of mind. It makes removal and re-use a PITA. Unless you plan on making a lot of HP, I wouldn't use it. And if I did, it would be low strength blue.
I have broken Gland nuts tightening with an impact, so I don't do that anymore.
I would say the best way for someone with little experience to retighten them is to use a torque wrench. That itself presents a challenge to most because not only do you need a good TW, you also need a way to hold the engine and flywheel from turning. You need a strong engine stand you can trust, a flywheel lock, and a good, accurate torque wrench.
The torque wrench is where most people skimp. In general, they are all most accurate in the middle of their range. That is, a wrench rated at 250 ft lbs is most accurate tightening fasteners in the range of 120 to 160 ft lbs. If you try to tighten a gland nut with one of these set to 217 ft lbs, there is surely trouble soon to follow. There is no way you're going to get an accurate or sufficient torque with a wrench that's only 30" long.
The best torque wrench to use is one rated at 400 ft lbs or more. These are all going to be at least 3/4" drive. This way when you tighten the nut, the wrench is applying an accurate torque. The wrench should be pulled, not pushed. The motion should be smooth and in one swing.
A torque wrench should not be used to loosen anything either, that can damage them or alter their calibration
I've never had to use the Torquemiester, but it does look like the best alternative method there is. |
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streetstock70 Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2010 Posts: 258 Location: USA
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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How can you remove the gland nut and flywheel with it out of the case?I have just the crank and the flywheels still attached.I have no bench vise or much to hold it with. Any advice?????????? _________________ 1970 Standard Beetle |
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partonkevin Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2003 Posts: 478 Location: McMinnville, TN
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Gary wrote: |
Torquemeister. |
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Gary Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002 Posts: 17069 Location: 127.0.0.1
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:02 am Post subject: |
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1974YellowBug wrote: |
How can you remove the gland nut and flywheel with it out of the case?I have just the crank and the flywheels still attached.I have no bench vise or much to hold it with. Any advice?????????? |
Find someplace with a vice or else take the entire assy to a shop that has a high torque impact gun. _________________ West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
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61SNRF Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009 Posts: 4657 Location: Whittier 90602
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:47 am Post subject: |
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1974YellowBug wrote: |
How can you remove the gland nut and flywheel with it out of the case?I have just the crank and the flywheels still attached.I have no bench vise or much to hold it with. Any advice?????????? |
Even with a vise, I don't think you could hold it tight enough to use a breaker bar.
Best way now is with an impact.
Or, resort to those Rube Goldberg methods |
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tailwaggers Samba Stray
Joined: August 31, 2009 Posts: 270 Location: Silver Spring, MD
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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I just put mine back on with the Torque Dude (same as Torquemeister) and Helping Hand. I set my torque wrench to 30lbs which equates to 270lbs on the gland nut. It didn't feel like I was tightening it very much at all, but I guess it is right. What an awesome feeling it is when you have the right tools for the job. _________________ '71 Convertible
'93 Cabriolet
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." -Groucho |
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