Useless (?) relays?

[VisPacem]

Hi

I finally got to take pictures of two "abandoned" relays/connectors or whatever they may be. They are not connected to anything and I suspect that it was a dual battery setup pilfered by one of the POs before selling the crate ( not what you think, previous owner(S)) )

1- has an inscription: CDLA 135
9619

2- ....................... ESSEX COIL 12VDC INT.


Simple curiosity, I just like to know as exactly as possible


Thanks

_________________
LG aka VisPacemPB, *The* party Pooper

No Regrets (Nothing to do with Vanagons)

[mwsnow]

#2 looks like a starter relay used on many American cars.

[Ahwahnee]

[crazyvwvanman]

Item #1 may be a battery switch with a key hole facing down into the wheel well? Theft deterrent perhaps. Item #2 is a poor excuse for a relay, as far as our applications go. Remove and discard both items, IMHO.

Mark

[GrindGarage]

#2 is def a starter relay. It is not hooked up in the pic. Is #1 hooked up? My guess is the PO would run down starter battery and had the #2 hooked up so that when he turned the key It would connect that battery to starter battery via heavy gauge cable hooked up to #1. Kinda auto jumpstart.

And this would be hooked up to +
_________________
-cliff

91 Vanagon AUTO
97 Single Port EJ22 all smallcar.com

[GrindGarage]

just noticed your other thread regarding starter with suby 2.2 swap. Maybe the PO used the cranking amps of a second battery to get that puppy to spin? Maybe it didn't work so well and removed most of wiring to make it safe for new owner?
_________________
-cliff

91 Vanagon AUTO
97 Single Port EJ22 all smallcar.com

[thatvwbusguy]

Mark is most likely dead on regarding #1. The other possibility is that it could be an older style auto reset circuit breaker similar to this:
http://www.pcsconnectors.com/CB251-50.aspx

#2 appears to be a SPST (single pole single throw) self-grounding solenoid. This is basically like the setup that GoWesty uses these days. It looks like is hooked up wrong, so resist the temptation to test it out until you can confirm all of the connections.

If you are looking to install an auxiliary battery in your van, do a quick search in the forum for "ACR". It is a much slicker and easier to install solution for just a few bucks more out of pocket than the old solenoid based systems.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[MarkWard]

A little off topic, but there are two types of "Ford Type" solenoid/relays. The common one is a starter solenoid. It is suited for short activation periods, like cranking an engine. The other type looks similar, but is suited for continuous duty as in an auxilary battery charging solution. If you use a starter type rather than the continuous duty type in a charging solution, it will overheat. When I say overheat, it will get physically extremely hot to the touch and soon it will fail. Both types look so similar, you need to cross reference the part number on them to know which is which.
_________________
☮️

[Vanagon Nut]

I took the liberty of adjusting the brightness etc of pic. Easier to see #1 now

edit: if the OP has issue with me hosting his pic on my picasaweb site, please advise and I'll remove ASAP.

#2 looks like a solenoid used as a battery seperator. I installed a similar type on my '81. It works fine, though as per Marks comment, since it's connected to the blue alt wire, may not be the best.

IIRC, on the Westy, the fridge heater relay has a diode to help suppress any voltage surging back (EMF?)

Is this required on the battery separator relay?

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[crazyvwvanman]

You are mistaken about the suppression diode, there isn't one. There is a polarity diode on the relay coil input to keep the relay from energizing except in the desired mode. If you look at Bentley page 97.34a you can see the diode in the factory aux battery diagram. Same relay was used in Westys for the fridge heater 12 volt control.

The polarity diode was only "needed" because VW did not use a true ground for the relay coil. They used the starter solenoid coil as a "ground" and there are conditions under which that ground can go positive so VW used the diode equipped relay to ensure that the relay would not energize if that happened. My answer is to use a true ground for the relay coil and then the diode has no purpose. This ground mod is required if you add a starter relay or "hard start relay" since these cause problems if the Westy relay is using the starter solenoid as a "ground".

Mark

[Vanagon Nut]