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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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 Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| svxcarat wrote: |
| loogy wrote: |
| burleymotorsports wrote: |
| Speaking of MBZ rims, I have a set here that are et 34 and 8'' wide not sure which MBZ they are off of. will these work on a Syncro? |
Those wheels are off of a '90-'98 300SL/500SL, '92-'93 500/600 and '94-'98 S Class.
They will work on a Syncro (not so hot on a 2WD), but a 225 tire will be extremely close to the upper control arm. In fact due to variances in tire widths from one manufacturer to another, one 225 might just barely fit while another might rub...it's that close. You could run some 3mm spacers on the stock length studs to give you just that extra bit of clearance.
These wheels came on cars that had 14mm wheel hardware, so the lug holes don't need to be drill and you can use the stock Vanagon steel wheel lug nuts. |
Do you think the Tiguan rims will work being 6 1/2 wide with an ET33? |
Yeah, I don't see a problem. The issue with the 16x8 ET34 is the additional width. Even though the centerline of the two different wheels (16x6.5 ET33 versus 16x8 ET34) is nearly the same (1mm difference), the inner lip of the 8" wheel will sit roughly 19mm further inboard. This means that the sidewall of the tire will also sit further inboard. Not a full 19mm, but likely close to 12, maybe 15mm closer to the upper control arm.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| syncroserge wrote: |
Weight ? Pretty please  |
with a cherry on top
weight of tiguan rim is>? |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| VWhead wrote: |
I wonder how thick they are? The Eurovan rims are pretty thick.
The MB and Passat rims seem to be awfully thin for off roading? |
I don't know about the Tiguan wheels, but the Mercedes wheels that Burley was asking about are much thicker than the standard C/E Class 16x7 ET37 wheels. I have a set here and can measure their thickness tomorrow if anyone needs it. I can tell you that they are not as thick as the Mefro wheels though.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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burleymotorsports
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 332
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svxcarat
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2009
Posts: 127
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
| syncroserge wrote: |
| Weight ? Pretty please |
with a cherry on top
weight of tiguan rim is>? |
I will check the weight in the morning |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| burleymotorsports wrote: |
| Thanks Loogy, you have a wealth of wheel knowledge thats for sure. I think I have some thin spacers laying around here. This is great news. |
I just reread what I wrote and realized that I should probably clarify a few things.
When I mentioned running up to 3mm spacers, I was referring to the front. The front studs on a Syncro protrude just a little more than the rear studs. The rear studs are short enough that there isn't much room to play with spacers. However the rear studs are pretty darn easy to change out, so installing longer ones isn't a real problem.
Whatever you do, just make sure that you have an absolute minimum of 7.5 turns of the lug. I like to see more like 9, but the European minimum standard for a 14x1.5 stud is 7.5...so who am I to argue?
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| syncrodoka wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You can run 225/75/16s on syncro 14 rear arms without modifications |
I tried a set of 225/75/16 BFG A/T tires on my van with CLK, Mefro and a set or Mercedes rims and they all had so little clearance that you could not slide a piece of construction paper between the tire and the trailing arm seam. Unless the duratracs are significantly different than BFGs the trailing arms will need to be modded.
SyncroGhia, I never thought I would be contesting something you said but I have actually installed these combinations. |
No probs, I admit they were close but fitted without clearance issues with stock Syncro 16 wheels (34mm offset) and I know of several UK syncro 14's running this size daily.
I'm guessing it comes down to the individual tyre manufacturer overall diameter as they're never what they should be!
This is my Syncro 14 Single Cab I sold to a mate a while ago. It was running stock Syncro 14 suspension.
The same tyres are now on a friends Syncro Camper (2WD to Syncro conversion) but on 16X7 Audi wheels (from Limey) with a 42mm offset and 20mm spacers giving an effective ET20.
Oh I spoke to my local VW parts supplier and I can get the wheels for around £52 each including V.A.T but there is no information on what the wheel weight spec is.
On T4 Syncro 16 wheels, the parts programme actually has the rating of 900KG in the description of the part. The offset is 53mm though and I've physically tried to fit one over my 330mm brakes and they wouldn't go anywhere near. It went back to VW! They are only £49 each though!!
MG
_________________
T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
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BenT Syncro
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2005
Posts: 1085
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| loogy wrote: |
Yeah, I don't see a problem. The issue with the 16x8 ET34 is the additional width. Even though the centerline of the two different wheels (16x6.5 ET33 versus 16x8 ET34) is nearly the same (1mm difference), the inner lip of the 8" wheel will sit roughly 19mm further inboard. This means that the sidewall of the tire will also sit further inboard. Not a full 19mm, but likely close to 12, maybe 15mm closer to the upper control arm. |
Math has never been my strong subject but I find something not quite right with that statement. Here's how it looks like to me:
16x6.5 will have it's inner lip at 82.55mm from it's centerline. Add 33mm ET to arrive at the CL to the inner lip of 115.55mm.
16X8 will have it's inner lip at 101.60mm from it's centerline. Add 34mm ET to arrive at the CL to the inner lip of 135.60mm.
14x6 stock alloy wheel at ET30 at 76.20. Add 30mm for ET to get 106.20mm.
The 8" wide wheel should be 20.05mm closer inwards towards the center of the van compared to the 6.5" wide wheel in the above scenario, right? That means you are putting 29.4mm of your wheel and tire combination further than what the stock steering geometry called for. I'm no engineer but it seems to me the scrub radius will be adversely affected with that much of a change. If I understand it correctly, the combo also effectively moves the contact patch inwards more than an inch possibly resulting in slightly higher tendency to roll.
Let me repeat again that I am not an engineer. I am open to anyone's thoughts on the matter. I ran with 8" wide redrilled Fuchs at ET23 way back in '99. The sucker cleared inside but peeked out from under the wheel arches. At the time, all I cared about was the wheel looked good and nothing bumped into each other. There are more concerns for me these days than just the look.
BenT |
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SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Ben,
I get the same 20.05mm but if you were using the same tyres on both wheels, the tyre would be more stretched on the wider wheel so possibly not be the full 20.05mm further in.
I run 16x8 wheels with a 40mm offset and 15mm spacers (making a 25mm offset). The 245/75/16 tyres are very close to the top wishbone up front. I couldn't move them any further in.
MG
_________________
T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
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BenT Syncro
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2005
Posts: 1085
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| SyncroGhia wrote: |
Ben,
I get the same 20.05mm but if you were using the same tyres on both wheels, the tyre would be more stretched on the wider wheel so possibly not be the full 20.05mm further in.
I run 16x8 wheels with a 40mm offset and 15mm spacers (making a 25mm offset). The 245/75/16 tyres are very close to the top wishbone up front. I couldn't move them any further in.
MG |
Hey Michael,
It's been awhile since I've been to Club80-90. Haven't read you for sometime. I didn't take spacers and resulting corrected ET into consideration. I was addressing what I thought were minor inconsistencies in the statement.
I used a much different tire (tyre) prefile than you. The van was a 2wd intended primarily for the relatively smooth California freeways. It's been more than 11 years and I cannot recall he exact size I used. It was likely a 50 series or lower tire. The rears were an inch or so wider with an even lower profile tire. These days, I'm looking at Tiguan steel wheels as an alternative. Nevermind, that I am still the consumate wheel hoarder.
I've got about 10 of those MB steel wheels which one of you described as "bendy". Just got them because they were cheap. The plan was to put them on my 16" whilst the original steelies were media blasted and powdercoated. Then I realized (yeah, we like 'Z's here) there were these nice 17" Borbet's from an Audi with Pirelli Scorpions from an X3 (less than 500 miles) just sitting in my hill of wheels. Popped the centering rings out and they bolted right on with conical seat lugnuts. No drama with longer studs or spacers. Have the requisite 7.5 turns as VAG specified in that open letter to T3 enthusiasts intending to use Audi wheels on T3's back in '99-'00.
Cheers,
BenT |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Ben and Mike,
You guys are absolutely correct. I wasn't clear about my statement. I was rounding the offset (making it theoretically the same for an apples to apples comparison) because I was simply trying to make a comparison of a 16x6.5" wheel and a 16x8" wheel without the added complication of the offset difference. If you take into account the 1mm offset difference between the Tiguan wheel and the Mercedes wheel in question, the Mercedes wheel would indeed sit further inboard by 20.05mm. (And we are assuming that the inner rim lip profile is identical, which is unlikely)
Sorry for the confusion. I was trying to keep things simple but ended up making them more complicated and confusing.
| Quote: |
| I get the same 20.05mm but if you were using the same tyres on both wheels, the tyre would be more stretched on the wider wheel so possibly not be the full 20.05mm further in. |
This is correct, but it depends on where on the tire's sidewall the measurement was taken. If you measured the sidewall right next to the rim lip, the measurement would be nearly a full 20mm. Measured half way up the sidewall and the measurement would be less than 20mm. The closer the measurement is made to the tread, the less the difference will be. The important location for the measurement would be right where the upper control arm would come in contact with the tire. Since the sidewall bulge is just a bit different for all the different tires, it's nearly impossible to say exactly what that difference would be.
Sheesh, I hope all of that makes sense now.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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svxcarat
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2009
Posts: 127
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
| syncroserge wrote: |
| Weight ? Pretty please |
with a cherry on top
weight of tiguan rim is>? |
The rim weighs 19 pounds ( american) and the metal is a little more then 4mm thick |
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:29 am Post subject: |
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> The rim weighs 19 pounds ( american) and the metal is a little more then 4mm thick
thanks!
compare to syncro16 16x5.5 steel at 28 lbs
I think the weight of the wheel gives you some idea how "strong" it is, when comparing steel to steel, like the Tiguan to the Mefro.
I dont know the weight of the Mercedes 16 steel, known to be "bendy".. please share if you know..
The Mefro 15x6" weighs 24.5 lbs, compare to SA 15x6 steel at 23 lbs
The Mefro 16x6 weighs 26 lbs, compare to Tiguan 16x6.5 at 19 lbs.. I cant help but think the Tiguan cant be as "strong"
fwiw, Mefro 16x6 ET 30 on sale for $99.. no need to clearance the center hole like on Tiguan wheels
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1263
Also, Van Cafe has center caps for the Mefro Steel wheels.
here are some other wheel weights from
http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/All_About_16-Wheels_And_The_CV_900.htm
WEIGHT DISCUSSION
Collecting wheel weight data in one place. I found
-- 18lbs regular factory alloy rim
-- 21lbs the CV-900
-- 23lbs South Africa 15" steel wheel (according to John Wessels)
-- 23lbs South Africa 15" alloy wheel (according to Eric Abercrombie)
-- 28lbs Factory 16" Steel Wheel (according to Eric Abercrombie)
-- 35lbs for a Stockton steel wheel in 16" size (www.stocktonwheel.com) |
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SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
> The rim weighs 19 pounds ( american) and the metal is a little more then 4mm thick
thanks!
compare to syncro16 16x5.5 steel at 28 lbs
I think the weight of the wheel gives you some idea how "strong" it is, when comparing steel to steel, like the Tiguan to the Mefro.
I dont know the weight of the Mercedes 16 steel, known to be "bendy".. please share if you know..
The Mefro 15x6" weighs 24.5 lbs, compare to SA 15x6 steel at 23 lbs
The Mefro 16x6 weighs 26 lbs, compare to Tiguan 16x6.5 at 19 lbs.. I cant help but think the Tiguan cant be as "strong"
fwiw, Mefro 16x6 ET 30 on sale for $99.. no need to clearance the center hole like on Tiguan wheels
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1263
Also, Van Cafe has center caps for the Mefro Steel wheels.
here are some other wheel weights from
http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/All_About_16-Wheels_And_The_CV_900.htm
WEIGHT DISCUSSION
Collecting wheel weight data in one place. I found
-- 18lbs regular factory alloy rim
-- 21lbs the CV-900
-- 23lbs South Africa 15" steel wheel (according to John Wessels)
-- 23lbs South Africa 15" alloy wheel (according to Eric Abercrombie)
-- 28lbs Factory 16" Steel Wheel (according to Eric Abercrombie)
-- 35lbs for a Stockton steel wheel in 16" size (www.stocktonwheel.com) |
I've been looking for this info for a while. Thanks.
It's good to know that I've managed to find some strong wheels which weigh no more than the factory alloys (18 lbs) for a 16 x 8 wheel isn't bad.
MG
_________________
T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
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Worms
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2009
Posts: 279
Location: Whangarei, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
I dont know the weight of the Mercedes 16 steel, known to be "bendy".. please share if you know..
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I have mercedes part 203 400 1602, 7.0 X 16 ET31's on my 2WD.
They are 8.25KG each - just over 18 pounds by my calculations 
I have 215 65 16's and all is fine - the steering is actually lighter than with stock steels! |
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Bendysports
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2011
Posts: 21
Location: Hollister
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
| Mercedes 16 steel, known to be "bendy".. |
I see this many places, but have been unable to find any examples of the "bendyness" of them. Naturally a lighter "thinner" wheel will be more prone to bend, but does anyone have a link to an example of the type of failure? Are they actual "wheel disc" failure, or impact lip issues?
Perhaps my "searchfu" is weak. |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12006
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:22 am Post subject: |
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That is the word for the herd in the UK. They say that they bend them from impact but they are cheap to replace and easy to get(not so in the US). The upgrade is to go with a MEFRO rim.
I know of people in the US that run a MBZ rim without issue, but I have bent a SA steel wheel which is stronger than a MBZ rim so.... |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:46 am Post subject: |
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I have had very good luck with my set of mefros.
dylan |
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: |
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I recently weighed my 1998 CLK 320 16x7 forged alloys. 14.2 lbs
this one:
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mathieux46
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2006
Posts: 259
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:49 am Post subject: Re: Tiguan Rims |
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Hi,
Did anyone tried to fit a VW T5 steel wheel plastic center cap on a Tiguan steel wheel?
From the pictures it seems the T5 and Tiguan wheel are very similar and these caps are available on ebay from Europe.
It would look nice on a vanagon. I may buy one cap just to test if no one tried.
Thanks
Mathieu |
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