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What TDI do I need for my Syncro Westy
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wolfsburg4x4
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

insyncro wrote:
If you really want to blow your budget out of the water buy Syncro Greg's imported Subaru Diesel engine without any wiring or conversion parts for $8500 and get fabricating.

At my shop your budget would be tight for a Subie 2.2 and the extras you want.
Do all the work yourself and you may have a chance.

dylan


$13500 for a complete setup with computer

Not sure why they are advertized for $8500 without computer etc, it's pretty much a boat anchor without the electronics
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wolfsburg4x4 wrote:
insyncro wrote:
If you really want to blow your budget out of the water buy Syncro Greg's imported Subaru Diesel engine without any wiring or conversion parts for $8500 and get fabricating.

At my shop your budget would be tight for a Subie 2.2 and the extras you want.
Do all the work yourself and you may have a chance.

dylan


$13500 for a complete setup with computer

Not sure why they are advertized for $8500 without computer etc, it's pretty much a boat anchor without the electronics


My price was $12,000.00 the other day direct from my contact at Subaru.
Complete engine and all brand new electronics + wires, delivered.

Yeap, without the wires & computer, a very expensive anchor.
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jackbombay
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

insyncro wrote:

My price was $12,000.00 the other day direct from my contact at Subaru.
Complete engine and all brand new electronics + wires, delivered.

Yeap, without the wires & computer, a very expensive anchor.


I sure would love to have a CR Boxer diesel in the back of a vanagon, but $12,000 is crazy, are the tons of taxes due to it not being available in any cars in this country?
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BlackDogVan
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jackbombay wrote:
BlackDogVan wrote:

The guy who bought my AAZ engine & Kennedy adapter did it in his syncro for under a grand. Adapter plate so no tank issues.


For an around town van it would be ok, but to drive it any notable distance with a diesel buzzing away at 4000 RPM isn't my idea of a "good conversion".


With his tires [email protected]
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AAZ is still a happy clam at 4,000 all day even tho a TDI might not be, but fuel economy would suffer. 3,200 is pretty ideal.
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jackbombay
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure some people with lots of scrounging and searching have pulled off cheap diesel swaps, but I think its a little misleading to to tell people that diesel swaps can be done for under a grand, especially when you can't really get an AAZ in the US, and certainly not for well under a $1000, and even if you could buy them here they don't get the MPGs that a TDI does, and they have less power.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack, it looks like you are replying to my post. For the record I haven't made a single comment about the cost of diesel conversions.
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BlackDogVan
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, yes not enough info in that quick post, he bought my AAZ with kennedy adapter clutch, fw, tdi starter & Westy ventures adapter. After that he paid $1000 for the rest of the bits he needed to DIY, approx 40hrs. So there you have a successful AAZ swap for $3500 plus sweat equity. They are out there, just like the $300 ford & subi engines we hear about. The AAZ was in every market except the US. Good motor & many in the US have bought them. No one is trying to say they are the same as a tdi. That said my AAZ saved me about a grand a year in fuel. Drove it for 8 years. mtdi is way better mileage wise with more (1.5x) the torque.

The guy wants a diesel, let him have one. His money. His van. They pay off, it just takes a while & lots of miles. This is a diesel swap thread BTW in case some have forgotten.
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JeffDenson
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay so I found this engine and want to know if this Pd is the 130hp?

Here's a description of the TDI:

The engine is a an 2003 ATD code 1.9l Pump Duse with 30,000 miles on it.
The purchase includes the ECU, engine wiring harness, complete body harness down
to running lights, and airbag harness.
It has the electronic gas pedal, gas fuel return cooler, mass air sensor, 120
amp alternator, power steering pump and ac compressor.
It has installed - new timing belt and pulley kit, new water pump, new serp belt
as well as new oil filter.

It also has a new KEP adapter plate kit, with KEP custom vanagon flywheel, and
stage 2 pressure plate and heavy duty disc never installed.
This also includes a Waterboxer bell housing and input shaft.

I thought the ATD is only around 100 hp?
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jackbombay
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
Jack, it looks like you are replying to my post. For the record I haven't made a single comment about the cost of diesel conversions.


Sorry about that, I intended for the context of my post to show that I was replying to blackdog.

BlackDogVan wrote:
So there you have a successful AAZ swap for $3500 plus sweat equity.


I'm sure we can agree that $3500 is substantially different than $1000 Wink


BlackDogVan wrote:
This is a diesel swap thread BTW in case some have forgotten.


Well, he specifically asked about TDI swaps, not diesel swaps, so AAZ swaps are kind of off topic, and lets face it, for someone in the US there is very little reason to consider an AAZ swap, the AAZ has virtually no advantages compared to a TDI.

THat said, a friend in Vancouver has a really nice AAZ swap in his westy, he has a Giles pump in it, AWIC, the works, and it drives quite nice, but even with his engine "turned up" notably, it drives very similarly to my stock AHU E-TDI, and it smoked more than mine, not at cruise speed, but at tip in it did, its just older technology and not in the same league as a TDI.
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jackbombay
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JeffDenson wrote:


I thought the ATD is only around 100 hp?


In stock trim, yes, 100, or 101 HP according to google, There is a god chance you can get it "chipped" and or throw some bigger nozzles at it to get 130 though. Unless the price is good I would look for an engine that has been sold in the US so its easier to find parts/someone to work on it if you don't plan on doing all the wrenching.
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BlackDogVan
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sooo sorry there jack. You are super right, not just is catching my major deception but there and in all other things Vanagon & engine swap. I'll leave it all to you then as you are just all over it.

Here a nice wink for you too. Wink
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jackbombay wrote:
for someone in the US there is very little reason to consider an AAZ swap, the AAZ has virtually no advantages compared to a TDI.


I'm not casting a vote for the AAZ vs. TDI, but your comment is an over-simplification/misrepresentation. I would personally opt for a TDI over an AAZ, because of my own priorities, but the AAZ has its own distinct and significant advantages over the TDI. The AAZ engines are not hard to come by in the US. They are very easily available from Canada, very inexpensive there and they are not particularly expensive to ship. The cost/labor of an AAZ install is significantly less than a TDI install as you don't have to deal with the electronics of the TDI management or the purchase/build of the mTDI pump if going non-electronic. Also, unlike the TDI, the AAZ is perfectly happy with the stock gearing, especially if larger tires are used and so there is no need to budget for custom gearing/trans rebuild which is another big cost difference.

Getting back on track regarding the actual thread topic, to meet the requirements set out by the OP, it would be good to take a look at the specs of the V6 TDI engines such as has been fitted to the touareg. I look forward to those engines becoming more available as they are specs are fairly incredible and they look like they would be a decent fit in a vanagon engine compartment. 240 HP and 400 ft-lbs of torque...
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jackbombay
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
The AAZ engines are not hard to come by in the US. They are very easily available from Canada, very inexpensive there and they are not particularly expensive to ship.


I have never seen one for sale at a price that I would consider "inexpensive", but I haven't looked in a while and with a collapsing economy I'm sure the prices have dropped.

Last time I looked (a few years ago) an AAZ was the same price as a TDI, and it makes less power, and uses %15 more fuel.


I've worked on enough IDIs that I would never intentionally own one, the high altitude here and extremely long winters are certainly not IDI friendly, but even when I lived in portland I wasn't impressed with the IDIs.

An AAZ and a TDI are both turbo diesels, but I think its misleading for people to post about them as if they are interchangeable because my experience hasn't shown them to be similar.
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jackbombay
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackDogVan wrote:
Sooo sorry there jack. You are super right, not just is catching my major deception but there and in all other things Vanagon & engine swap. I'll leave it all to you then as you are just all over it.


Yes, Yes I am.
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JeffDenson
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone done a newer 2.0 TDI?
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JeffDenson
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay I will be more specific anyone put a 2009 VWAG 2.0 TDI 170 BHP ENGINE CODE CEG in a Vanagon?
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Jon_slider
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no Jeff, you would be the first

this site might generate more info for you
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/TDI-conversion/messages
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BlackDogVan
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the CR's using a different bolt pattern? It might be as easy as any other 15 degree install. CANBUS tho, right?
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife just bought a 2011 Jetta TDI sportwagen. I told her if she totals it, the engine goes into the Vanagon. Someone will need to learn how to reprogram these ECU's though. The engine does not tolerate anymore that 5% bio. There is a "furnace" that collects and burns off the soot at various intervals controlled by the ECU. On a conversion, it would be nice to disable that feature simplfying the install and the ability to run additional blends of bio fuel. It is an awsome ride and hopefully she won't be totaling it. It is amazing how far developed the diesels have come since the original 1.5 NA from the late 70's knowing that diesels are not for everyone. mark
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