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Install Wind. Regulator,Window&Wing Window Assmbly Pt 1
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Escondido
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:45 pm    Post subject: Install Wind. Regulator,Window&Wing Window Assmbly Pt 1 Reply with quote

To link to this post copy and paste
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[url=https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5182002#5182002]Install Wind. Regulator,Window&Wing Window Assmbly Pt 1[/url]


If you want to go to part 2
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5269934#5269934

This thread is regarding installing a driver’s door Window Regulator, Window and Wing Window Assembly of a bay window van. It seems like a simple sentence if you do it once a month, try doing it once in a lifetime, the word SIMPLE turns into S*** real quick. This is one of two threads. This one is to focus on the installation of the Wing Window Assembly whereas the other will deal with the before and after details of installing the new components. If you are looking to get instructions on removal of these items just go backwards in the order. This thread was originally started in November of 2010 but because of time constraints I could not get the info posted in time so it is kind of a frozen beginning of something that this one should partly finish. So this is my little something to add to The Samba. This is my first time at this so I hope some of the veterans out there will chime in and add the finishing touches to the thread. This begins with your door stripped of the, interior panel, window, regulator, felt channel, grip clips, both outside and inside rubber wipers, and the Wing Window Assembly (WWA henceforth or to save on typing however you want to call it).

Install outside bezel with rubber wiper. Add some tape to keep it in place before you add the black clips.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Install the black steel felt clips except the one near the WWA this one will be one of the last things done. Now the clip has a bent tongue on the back side that allows it to hang on the edge of a hole in the frame. In looking back at this project I believe it might be best insert the tongue in the direction that the aluminum bezel is not partially covering the hole. This is so the tongue is hanging on the steel frame and not the aluminum bezel.
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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In one of my attempts to install everything I discovered that the Felt Channel sometimes would not stay put in the lower back guide. It ended up being twisted and smashed after I kept forcing things together. One of the biggest challenges with this project is when to use force! Is it the ingredient NEEDED for the casserole or is it a CAUTION FLAG that says step away, calm down, come back, look and learn why you are forcing these things. This is the result of not seeing the CAUTION FLAG.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Bend the Felt Channel to match the corner radius and make the horizontal length ¼ - ½” past the screw hole for the top mount for the WWA (direction towards the door hinges). This will be trimmed later. Then place the bent Felt Channel against the door to get a reference of where the vertical leg ends. I added another clip in the Lower Window Guide to help when I am installing the WWA.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After you place the Lower Window Guide against the door for determining roughly where to add the clip, drill and insert the extra clip.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Install the Lower Window Guide, hook the upper clip of the Lower Window Guide then bolt the bottom. Slide the Felt Channel into the door until the radius is about were it should be. Insert the radius first then work down pressing the Felt Channel into the clips. Make sure that the end of the felt is secured into the clip in the Lower Window Guide. Once the felt is started into the Lower Window Guide clip, insert the window into the door through the lower door opening push or pull the edge of the window into the felt channel in order to seat the felt channel firmly into the clip. Now, slide window to the right of the door and stick your finger up there to verify that the felt channel is seated. correctly. The extra clip will insure that the felt channel does not get screwed up during assembly. Leave window sitting on the lower cross support inside the door. I would not press the Felt Channel into the upper clips yet and just tape the Felt Channel to maintain position.
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Add window lifter (regulator) assembly into door frame by rotating it into the door frame. The top part needs to end up between the WWA front window guide (it looks like a mast for a sail) and the inside of the door. See the photo with the arrow; you will not have the front window guide in the photo present. Also it needs to be higher that the WWA door-mount area. The door mount area is the boss that protrudes inward so the bolt can fasten the Window Wing Assembly to the door frame. Fasten the six bolts. The inside of the door I was working on had a hole in the support member so I placed the rubber tube into the hole for alignment. I guess you could just leave it bend on top of the support member.
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Install the inside rubber window wiper using the bent wire “springs clips”, do not insert the last clip near the WWA. I used large needle nose pliers then switched to narrow ones for the final insertion.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Check the tension of the Wing Window by rotating it. It is easier to adjust the tension of the swivel with the 10mm bolt (right circle) before it goes into the frame. Lock the Wing Window shut. In the photo you will notice that the left circle shows the rubber tongue hanging out. I ended up with those tongues tuck in inside rather that leaving them out. I decided based on the other van of mine. It is these types of small details that can consume your day and before you know it, it’s 3 PM and you are on your second beer and things are moving mighty slow. This is why those types of detail are covered in the other thread that I will get to after this one.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now we are entering the real deal and this is why you paid for your Samba subscription this year! Insert the WWA with a twist and insert it into the frame. You will need to spread the inside rubber wiper out of the way. As for the outside rubber wiper you can insert some wax paper on a spatula or some a vinyl sheet, anything to prevent galling of the WWA front window guide. The door mount flange is offset so the twisting of the WWA is needed in order to get the door mount flange past the initial opening of the door. The window position should be shifted to the left and pushed towards the outside of the door so it doesn’t interfere with the end of the WWA front window guide, think of the 70/80’s Christopher Cross song “Sailing”. I am not a sailor.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Your attention will begin with the lower half of the WWA then once you have gotten the door mount flange past the initial opening your attention will go to the top of the WWA. The felt channel might be in the way so bend it a little. Continue sliding the WWA, now not twisted and instead parallel with the door frame. STOP when the WWA is at about 10 or 20 degrees. I had severe galling between the upper aluminum bezel and the aluminum of the WWA. I just filed a chamfer on the forward edge of the WWA or you can add some grease up there. Now play with the window and the WWA’s angle in order to get the window into both felt guides. You will need to use a mirror or assume the humble position in front of the altar of the VW gods, and look up inside the door for alignment.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is what the WWA looks like after you have mated the edges of the window with the rear and front guides. If you are disassembling the window you will need to remove the WWA to this point. The window is still sitting on the cross member of the door.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now your attention is back on top of the WWA because in order for the WWA to find its final resting place you will be forcing the WWA a bit downward so the upper mount tab for the screw can clear the end of the channel where the felt will eventually end up in. After the tab is clear and you are probably thinking at this point, hey there is light at the end of the tunnel. Now just pull up the WWA until the upper tab up to the threaded hole. You can pat yourself on the back now, you are done with the most difficult part of the project. The rest is just the icing.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Finish inserting the Inside Rubber Wiper. First eyeball the tapped hole from the WWA’s front window guide door flange to line up with the door mounting hole. Do not add the bolt yet. Do the same with the upper mount tab and add the screw then back it off a bit so you can adjust the top later. Adding some baby power or foot powder will help with moving the rubber into position. There are different ways of doing this, here are two. 1. Leave the last bent wire “springs clip” alone and insert the rubber half way, then snap the clip, then go back to finish sliding the rubber. 2. Snap the clip then go after the rubber. You have left out the bolt in the WWA’s front window guide door flange in order to allow for the WWA’s front window guide to be moved in order to make a gap for the rubber.
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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Adjustment and Fastening of the WWA. Add the bolt to the WWA’s front window guide door flange. Do not tighten. I ground off the pivot rivet for the Wing Window to add the new seal for the WWA. I bought the new rivet but do not have the mushrooming tool so I just added a 4mm S.S. S.H.C.S. bolt with a nylon nut. Now have a look at the outside of the WWA. Is the rubber seal sealing? Does the Wing Window open and shut? Does the window go up and have some play between the guides? You have play in the upper and lower mounts so adjust away then tighten the two fasteners. On this project I could not get alignment along the vertical edge of the Wing Window. When I closed the Wing Window it would hit the top edge of the frame. After the upper screw and the lower bolt were tight I closed the door and forcefully bend the Wing Window hinge. That fixed it. The Bentley Manual has some adjustment suggestions in it. To slide the window up you can use an “L” shaped something (maybe an Allen wrench) and lifted the window as the other hand rocked the window INSIDE the felt channels. Even though I had parallel play within the guides the new felt kept it from falling down. At this time I found the middle of the parallel play and fastened the Window Regulator (Window Lifter) to the Window Bracket.
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Finish inserting the Felt Channel. Straighten out the felt channel to get a visual location to cut the end of the channel. Remember it was left longer because we do not know where exactly it was going to end up. Insert the tongue of the black clip in the direction that the aluminum bezel is not partially covering the hole. This is so the tongue is hanging on the steel frame and not the aluminum bezel. Use tin snips or sharp wire cutters to trim the Felt Channel to length then firmly press the channel into the upper clip.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This takes most of the mystery out of this process, enjoy your work!

If you want to go to Part 2:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5269934
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Last edited by Escondido on Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:25 am; edited 5 times in total
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just yesterday I was looking at my front windows thinking.... Think

"How in the hell am I going to get these back in?"

A very timely post. I can hardly wait for Part II!!!
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bugger101
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is faq worthy
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BusterBrown
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent write up. Thanks!

We'll all be doing this someday, if we haven't already. I know mine sure needs it.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post! I'm going to have to do the same to my bus very soon. Was wondering if the little aluminum trim that is around the main window rubber on the outside of the doors is optional or can be found new? I had to buy a replacement door as my driver's side was damaged. The new door didn't have the rubber or the aluminum trim I mentioned.

Thanks for any help.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Install outside bezel with rubber wiper.


that easy huh? i spent an hour tweaking it to get the bezel to conform to the window frame. i also had to cut notches in the bezel for the black steel clips- most of these come from brazil where their buses have the clips in different locations.

Quote:
I bought the new rivet but do not have the mushrooming tool so I just added a 4mm S.S. S.H.C.S. bolt with a nylon nut.


i thought i was the only person who would do this. i had already visualized myself flipping off anyone at a show that would condescend at me for not using the rivet. it's not a germen rivet, so what would be so pure about a rivet anyway? Laughing

BTW, 8-32 fits the hole more snugly than the 4mm. but of course, that's not metric- look out, here comes the purity police!!! Shocked
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Escondido
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Fourfignewtons:

Thanks for viewing. I was surprised at the limited step-by-step’s that were on the net. I would imagine that eventually all driver side doors will need this treatment! My next thread will deal with the quality of the parts (Outside alum. Bezel/Outside Rubber Wiper, Felt Channel, Wing Window Seal) with part numbers and distributor contact info. In addition the prep work on getting most things in order before starting on the assembly. It was real easy to get lost in the details so I wanted to keep the two threads separate.

The “little aluminum trim” is called:
TRIM FRAME WITH OUTER RUBBER SCRAPER SEAL - LEFT SIDE

Can be found here:
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C24%2D211%2D853%2D321%2DGR

Or here:
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211853321GR

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Last edited by Escondido on Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Escondido
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Dansvans:

Was the Bezel/Outside Wiper made in Brazil? In my reply to Fourfignewtons both distributors had Brazil and German versions that were about $15 difference in price. Considering the amount of details involved with this project, in hindsight, I was glad not to rework the bargain parts that I almost purchased. I bought the German part and noticed only one location in which the clearance cut out in the aluminum did not match the hole in the steel frame for the Black Clips that hold the Felt Channel. The photo show how nicely most of the clearance cut outs in the aluminum fit the hole in the frame. When you consider the amount of time involved in installing these parts why buy a part that will fail sooner than later?

You are right! I guess the 4mm comes in at .156 where an 8-32 comes in at .164! So wonder I had so much play in the Wing Window!!
Laughing

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fourfignewtons
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Escondido,

Where would us newbies be without you guys and your AWESOME threads. You are the true teachers!

A million thanks for the amazing work you and the other gurus on this site do. Very Happy
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Escondido
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fourfignewtons:

This is off the Bay Window FAQ:

Some Bay Vendors:
Bus Boys (CA)
Go Westy!(CA)
West Coast Metric (CA)
Wolfsburg West(CA)
Wolfgang International (CA)
Volks Cafe (CA)
California Imports (WA)
OEVeedub (CO)
BugHaus (OK)
The Bus Depot (PA)
Mid America Motorworks (IL)
Old Volks (AZ)
Just Kampers (UK)
Bow Wow (BC)
Bow Wow (WA)
German Supply (ON)
Busted Bus (used)
The Bus Co. (used)
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good write-up.
I would like to see how you put the little white wedge back in on the wind wing side/bottom.
To make a perfect bend in the felt channel, cut a piece of Masonite (or other material the same thickness of the glass) in the same arc as the door/glass bend. Then insert the Masonite in the felt channel and bend the felt around it before installing in door.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Opossum wrote:
Good write-up.
I would like to see how you put the little white wedge back in on the wind wing side/bottom.
To make a perfect bend in the felt channel, cut a piece of Masonite (or other material the same thickness of the glass) in the same arc as the door/glass bend. Then insert the Masonite in the felt channel and bend the felt around it before installing in door.



or, just use the window glass while its out of the door and do the same thing Cool
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ossum:
I still have three more wing windows to replace the seals on. This one pictured in this thread had no white wedge. I do remember reading somewhere in the samba about the irrelevance of the white wedge and because of this manufactures do not sell it. Maybe the original engineers just used it as an extra measure of insurance that the Wing Window Assembly does not have any play between the frame?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read your post and it is a great reference. My question is, do you install your glass before you install the interior window scraper? I have a 1973 Westfalia and my door glass does not fit through the side access hole.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Install Wind. Regulator,Window&Wing Window Assmbly P Reply with quote

Fantastic reference!

My problem is that it turns out some creative soul has completely removed the Lower Window Guide in my driver's side door.
Any ideas on part number? Or where to source a new one? (I'm quite far away from any scrap yards)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Install Wind. Regulator,Window&Wing Window Assmbly P Reply with quote

bakkus wrote:
.......completely removed the Lower Window Guide in my driver's side door..........

Which "guide"?, later buses have no rear channel below the level of the door handle, the one on the lower 1/2 of the vent wing frame does all the work.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: Install Wind. Regulator,Window&Wing Window Assmbly P Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Install Wind. Regulator,Window&Wing Window Assmbly P Reply with quote

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-211-837-419-A
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Install Wind. Regulator,Window&Wing Window Assmbly P Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
bakkus wrote:
.......completely removed the Lower Window Guide in my driver's side door..........

Which "guide"?, later buses have no rear channel below the level of the door handle, the one on the lower 1/2 of the vent wing frame does all the work.


The one referred to as "7" i Tcash's illustrations.
And the one kreemoweet linked to.

This is the one referred to as "Lower Window Guide" in the main post.
Did VW skip this at some stage?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Install Wind. Regulator,Window&Wing Window Assmbly Pt 1 Reply with quote

I'm getting ready to put all the front door glass back in my 78 bay, with all new seals from bus dept. Anyone done this lately? Maybe a list/order of installation. Any pointers before I jack with it?
Thank you
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