Author |
Message |
busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
|
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:18 am Post subject: Frame and torsion tube repair FAQ |
|
|
As buses age and it gets harder to find dry ones sometimes you've gotta make do with what's available, many have asked if the frame was repairable, sure it is but I wouldn't recommend this for someone with no welding experience.
here's a recent repair I did on a 68 doublecab. It's not show or restoration quality by any means, the rest of the truck has already had 2 major rust repair/rebuild hacks already in it's life and the frame finally gave in to mother nature, think of it as preservation. Some day I hope to get pics of a really nice repair, sadly I'm kind of ADD and stopping to take pics messes up my work mojo so this will have to do, cameras don't last long around grinding dust either.
So here's what I started with, the job originally was a rear end rebush and spring plate adjust until I noticed the end of the torsion tube moved up and down as I jacked and pryed The cause became obvious once I had a look inside:
This one shows the crack in the tube, upon closer inspection it went from 2:00 to 10:00 on the tube, not good!
So I start grinding to get a better look, the white powder is bondo dust that was camoflaging a previous repair, someone had skinned the area with a layer of 20 ga and filled the seams to disguise it, nice!, although it was already rough I suspect the quickie patch acellerated the cancer.
Once some of the frame and the scale was out of the way it became evident this wasn't going to be done this afternoon
It didn't look that bad from the outside, really, but after being full of dirt, salt and moisture for many years the demons were busy in the dark recesses.
Sorry for the crappy pic but you can make out the crack running up to the top of the tube here:
Keep grinding and cutting, sooner or later you'll hit solid metal and have enough room to work.....here's the rest of the frame coming off the tube, notice the double layers:
Noice!, looks like it was full to the top at one time:
View from the middle of the truck:
Oh yeah, the frame was hooped all the way up to where the box section stops, yay!
So.... finally down to the solid stuff and barely enough room to work:
Luckily I had another frame to make templates off, damn that 12 gauge is a bitch to cut. Start by patching the tube and then fitting the frame in sections:
More frame, piece by piece:
Add the reinforcing flange (no razzing on the welds until you've welded satin coat on your back under a bus with an aggravating evil welder )
Voila! just like brand old! (well better than a big crack and likely to outlast the rest of the truck)
I added a drain hole at the bottom of the frame dip and where each outrigger/crossmember meets the frame to hopefully prevent this from happening again.
Edit: Pics arranged in order. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні!
Last edited by busdaddy on Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Westfabulous Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 4207 Location: The tropic of Canada, dodging the giant flying moose of Surrey!
|
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
You da man Busdaddy. Nice work. I would have walked away with my head hung low, but your work is inspiring to folks like me. _________________ *****************
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
really nice job. You should consider opening a shop welding rusty old VW's _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Westfabulous Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 4207 Location: The tropic of Canada, dodging the giant flying moose of Surrey!
|
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
SGKent wrote: |
really nice job. You should consider opening a shop welding rusty old VW's |
......and fixing knockety lifters and other various and annoying thumpy T4 noises. _________________ *****************
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
fusername Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2006 Posts: 2897 Location: Boston MA
|
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
throw a drain hole in there, they all go soft there for a reason. spray it full of oil while your ait it. I caught mine going there as well, but pathced it in a much more frankenstine way as i don't have the time and cash for a real repair, and the rest of the bus aint long for the world anyways. 2 years and counting tho
my 2 cents you didnt ask for _________________ [email protected]
Need something custom bent up? shoot me an email, maybe we can make it work!
FORSALE: Thrust cut T4 and 1.9 main bearings
obnoxiousblue wrote: |
Maybe Ben Pon's ghost comes and vomits NOS stampings for your bus, but not mine! |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
|
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
fusername wrote: |
throw a drain hole in there, they all go soft there for a reason. spray it full of oil while your ait it. |
Way ahead of you but I didn't take a pic of it _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5364 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
|
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
WOW! Very nice work! ...and all lying on your back. I hate welding overhead. _________________ Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
|
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Awesome work and photo coverage. that should help a lot of people. _________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
77Campmobile Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2006 Posts: 102 Location: New Hampshire
|
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Perfect timing for me as I will be doing this same repair sometime in the next month. Mine is basically just as bad but maybe not as much of the frame away from the tube. We will see once I start grinding. I am currently working on my rotisserie so once that's done I will be doing the repair. Thankfully I won't be lying on my back. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BusterBrown Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2009 Posts: 1397 Location: Arizona
|
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
busdaddy; excellent write up and photos. Great addition to the knowledge base, and will give courage and inspiration to those who think "It can't be done"!
THANKS. _________________ 1978 Sage Green Westfalia (Happy Trails, SOLD)
1977 Transporter
Life is short. Can I have some of yours? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ccederholm Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2009 Posts: 74 Location: weymouth, ma
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5364 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
|
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
BusterBrown wrote: |
busdaddy; excellent write up and photos. Great addition to the knowledge base, and will give courage and inspiration to those who think "It can't be done"!
THANKS. |
Agree. _________________ Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bvolks Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2004 Posts: 845 Location: New Brunswick, Canada
|
Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
This thread just went into my favourites. I have a 70 Westfalia that I've been debating on scrapping but this gives me hope that I can fix it. _________________ 1985 Diesel Jetta Coupe (temporarily retired at
756,000 km)
1971 Doublecab project
1995 Golf CL
1974 Beetle
1978 Westfalia |
|
Back to top |
|
|
daltondragger73 Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2008 Posts: 847 Location: Port St. Lucie
|
Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
bvolks wrote: |
This thread just went into my favourites. I have a 70 Westfalia that I've been debating on scrapping but this gives me hope that I can fix it. |
Ill 2nd that!! i just bought a 70 9 passenger and was scared to death when I saw the rust and then this pops up litterally a day after a big panic!!! THANK YOU!!! _________________ Shine Dont Mean SHIZZZ!!
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate2-6559.png]Click to view image[/URL]
71 9 passenger (LOW budget)
Chip Fuchs wrote:
How about Medium size for the smaller ones amongst us??? As you know most fat chicks are being ridden by skinny guys!!!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
daltondragger73 Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2008 Posts: 847 Location: Port St. Lucie
|
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
what gage steel did you use for this repair tryin to find some scraps to do same repair _________________ Shine Dont Mean SHIZZZ!!
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate2-6559.png]Click to view image[/URL]
71 9 passenger (LOW budget)
Chip Fuchs wrote:
How about Medium size for the smaller ones amongst us??? As you know most fat chicks are being ridden by skinny guys!!!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
|
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
The frame is 12 ga., I used mostly 12 but did go with 14 where I had to do the forming. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mattcuddy Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2003 Posts: 2035 Location: Philly, PA
|
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Frame and torsion tube repair |
|
|
busdaddy wrote: |
So.... finally down to the solid stuff and barely enough room to work:
|
Man, that thing is almost in two pieces! What did you do to ensure correct alignment on welding? Pieces of angle the length of the tube? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
|
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
The very top was still attached (barely) and there was a tiny bit of the bottom (cracked), just enough to keep it lined up or at least indicate where it went, the upper part of the frame also helped alot to keep it in place. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Alex6373 Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2007 Posts: 873 Location: Vancouver Island,B.C.
|
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Very nice work Well done! _________________ Wildthings wrote:
The "0" mark should be TDC and the "I" mark should be 27° BTDC, though there are variants out there. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Blaubus Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2003 Posts: 5153
|
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i am impressed. i have boxed in the tube before, but a wrecked tube would have scared me right off. it is only rubber bushed on the outside, so i guess alignment is not critical. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|