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glutamodo 
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26324
Location: Douglas, WY
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 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Bug Owner Again wrote: |
| Carb is a 34 PICT -3 Bocar 113129021P and I also have a 009 distributor. What is the best set up with my car? will my carb benefit with the rivet? I just bought the bug and rebuilt the carb and I am having trouble adjust my carb as well. |
Every Bocar 34PICT-3 I've seen has the small hole for SVDA in the throttle plate, so no, that won't help you any.
Bocar 34 series carbs are well known for being, well, tempermental and poor runners. And an 009 distributor only makes it worse. |
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Joey
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 5366
Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Bug Owner Again wrote: |
| dcnjoe60 wrote: |
| 68IHscout wrote: |
| Here is the numbers vw355_2 and b3 072. Thanks for you're help |
That carb was designed to work with a 113905205AL distributor which is SVDA. You don't need the pop rivet.
Joe |
my Carb is a 34 PICT -3 Bocar 113129021P and I also have a 009 distributor. What is the best set up with my car? will my carb benefit with the rivet? I just bought the bug and rebuilt the carb and I am having trouble adjust my carb as well. |
The rivet will help but it still won't be perfect. A larger main jet will help a bit too but I recommend getting rid of the 009 and get a single vacuum advance distributor.
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Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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Bug Owner Again
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2011
Posts: 98
Location: MD
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
| Bug Owner Again wrote: |
| Carb is a 34 PICT -3 Bocar 113129021P and I also have a 009 distributor. What is the best set up with my car? will my carb benefit with the rivet? I just bought the bug and rebuilt the carb and I am having trouble adjust my carb as well. |
Every Bocar 34PICT-3 I've seen has the small hole for SVDA in the throttle plate, so no, that won't help you any.
Bocar 34 series carbs are well known for being, well, tempermental and poor runners. And an 009 distributor only makes it worse. |
Just my luck,lol Which would be the best carb/distributor for my stock bug? I will be running my bug stock for about a year while I build a better engine. |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26324
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Really, I'd prefer a good condition German carb and its matching German distributor. However with that Bocar carb the standard "SVDA" ought to do better than the 009.
Did you mess around with your accelerator pump linkage adjustment at all? I ask because people often see the "+" and "-" settings on it, and move it over to the plus side. Well, that usually makes things worse, because of play in the linkage - you end up with a delay before the accelerator pump starts to spray as you open the throttle lever. The best adjustment is to take up any/all play in that linkage so that it starts to spray right away as you open the throttle. Depending on wear that can be over on the "-" side. I had one high-milage German carb that was so worn I had to have it all the way over to "-" to compensate.
-Andy |
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CLNinja
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010
Posts: 199
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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I have a mexican Bocar 34pict carb
Anyone know if I have the correct hole in my throttle plate for SVDA? |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26324
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Like I said before - every Bocar 34 carb I've ever seen, the throttle plate was set up for SVDA... the smaller hole, in other words. |
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Bug Owner Again
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2011
Posts: 98
Location: MD
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
Really, I'd prefer a good condition German carb and its matching German distributor. However with that Bocar carb the standard "SVDA" ought to do better than the 009.
Did you mess around with your accelerator pump linkage adjustment at all? I ask because people often see the "+" and "-" settings on it, and move it over to the plus side. Well, that usually makes things worse, because of play in the linkage - you end up with a delay before the accelerator pump starts to spray as you open the throttle lever. The best adjustment is to take up any/all play in that linkage so that it starts to spray right away as you open the throttle. Depending on wear that can be over on the "-" side. I had one high-milage German carb that was so worn I had to have it all the way over to "-" to compensate.
-Andy |
I actually adjusted my carb without the linkage hooked up and then when I got it set the best I could (which I am not real happy with) I then pulled all the slack out of my cable and tightened it down. I have read a couple of web pages on adjust the 34 PICT -3 and none of them seems to work. i had to turn my idle screw in 3/4 of the way and my bypass screws doesn't seem to be working to well at all. It reads that I should set idle by using the "bypass screw" but when I turn it,it only raises the idle 200 rpms and then doesn't speed it up at all. So I kept turning it till it sound like it was sucking way to much air. So I started over and adjusted it by ear. I have my idle screw in 3/4 of the way,Volume control screw id turned out 4 &1/2 turns, and my bypass screw is turned out.....................I cant remember. lol My bug has top end but hesitant off of the line.
by the way I don't understand when you stated about seeing the + and - I don't see that on mine.
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Joey
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 5366
Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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glutamodo is talking about the linkage on the right side of the carb, the accelerator pump linkage. Remove the air cleaner and look down into the carb. You'll see a brass tube coming out of the right side and then point down. When you pull the throttle does fuel immediately start squirting out and down into the carb? If not adjust the accelerator pump linkage so it does.
Here's a good write up on to adjust the carb:
http://www.vw-resource.com/34pict3.html
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Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26324
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly. Here's a photo:
And here's the one I mentioned that was so badly worn out:
And it might be a good idea to check your idle setup - in the photo of this Bocar carb it appears that the screw on the throttle arm might be out too far. You need to set it up so the throttle is totally shut at idle. That link talks about that setup, as does this:
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dcnjoe60
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Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 434
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
Exactly. Here's a photo:
And here's the one I mentioned that was so badly worn out:
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The Bocar 34pict3 should work fine. It is not your problem, but the 009 distributor is. A pop rivet may help, but that is only treating the symptom, the real problem is the distributor.
That said, if that is a picture of your carb, then your accelerator pump is not adjusted correctly. In that picture it is set to the supply the minimum amount of fuel when you press the pedal. It should be at least in the middle if not almost all the way to the plus side. If you are getting stumbling when you hit the accelerator hard, it is because you are not getting enough fuel. Before doing anything else, like switching distributors, or plugging the hole, I'd adjust the pump and see if that helps you out.
EDIT: If you do replace the distributor to an SVDA, you should not need a pop rivet in the throttle plate. It is only needed (when using an SVDA distributor) with select models of the Solex 34pict3. |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26324
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| dcnjoe60 wrote: |
| That said, if that is a picture of your carb, then your accelerator pump is not adjusted correctly. In that picture it is set to the supply the minimum amount of fuel when you press the pedal. |
IF YOU HAD read the caption I put before I posted that photo of my own example...
| Quote: |
| And here's the one I mentioned that was so badly worn out: |
and YES, that one WAS adjusted correctly . Why? Becuase of the incredible amount of wear in that linkage. I adjusted it until all of the play was taken up. This DID put it way over on the "-" side. The flat spot on this carb was improved considerably after I did this. because it now started to spray right away when the throttle was opened. The best fix, of course, was to get rid of that worn linkage and replace it with one a little bit less worn out, which I did - after which it looked like this:
| Quote: |
| EDIT: If you do replace the distributor to an SVDA, you should not need a pop rivet in the throttle plate. It is only needed (when using an SVDA distributor) with select models of the Solex 34pict3. |
Yes. A pop rivet is used to reduce the size of that hole. A BOCAR 34 should not need it. It is already the smaller size. Just not in the exact same spot on the plate.
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68IHscout
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2010
Posts: 3122
Location: santa ana ca
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| JGax wrote: |
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| Well I'm confused now, I have a h30/31 now with svda |
I suggest to open a new thread with your issues.
Any way if you want, do right here.
Need more datails on your issues. |
thanks for the duggestion ,there was allready good info on this thread to just let it sit and collect dust ,and there is more great info comming in .. |
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Bug Owner Again
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2011
Posts: 98
Location: MD
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
Really, I'd prefer a good condition German carb and its matching German distributor. However with that Bocar carb the standard "SVDA" ought to do better than the 009.
Did you mess around with your accelerator pump linkage adjustment at all? I ask because people often see the "+" and "-" settings on it, and move it over to the plus side. Well, that usually makes things worse, because of play in the linkage - you end up with a delay before the accelerator pump starts to spray as you open the throttle lever. The best adjustment is to take up any/all play in that linkage so that it starts to spray right away as you open the throttle. Depending on wear that can be over on the "-" side. I had one high-milage German carb that was so worn I had to have it all the way over to "-" to compensate.
-Andy |
Thx for the pics Glutamodo I even rebuilt the carb (1st timer) and I didn't notice or adjust this screw at all. I didn't have any + or - that I could see on mine but thx to your pics I set it to the - side and it seemed to be a bit worse so then I adjusted it more to the + side and the hesitation is solved but I still have a problem when I rev it hard it wants to stall. I have put new spark plugs in,new rotor,dist. cap,points,set timing to 8 deg TDC. I have tried to adjust carb exactly like you have posted but it just wont idle. when I had the idle screw just touching (plus 1/2 turn in) I had the Bypass screw out 3 turns but she refuses to idle. When I turn the Bypass screw out it doesn't want rev to a higher rpm. I have turned it so far out that I sounds like it is sucking a whole lot of air and it still doesn't speed up the rpm's. So then I resorted to turning the idler screw in 3/4 of the way, and turning Volume control screw out 4 turns.It idles nice,and response,but it still wants to stall when i rev it hard.......................any ideas?
Here is a video to show you how its reacting:
Link
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dcnjoe60
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 434
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
and YES, that one WAS adjusted correctly . Why? Becuase of the incredible amount of wear in that linkage. I adjusted it until all of the play was taken up. This DID put it way over on the "-" side. The flat spot on this carb was improved considerably after I did this. because it now started to spray right away when the throttle was opened. The best fix, of course, was to get rid of that worn linkage and replace it with one a little bit less worn out, which I did - after which it looked like this:
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No, it is not correct. Just because you had to do that for your particular situation does not make it adjusted correctly, it means you adjusted it to get it to work. Just like, putting a pop rivet in a throttle plate makes a Solex 34pict3 work with an 009 is not the correct solution, either. It does enable that combination to work, but the correct solution would be to use an SVDA or DVDA distributor, depending on what carb was designed for.
Since you posted a picture of an obviously incorrectly adjusted accelerator pump (whether it works for you or not) and many, many other people are watching this thread and even more will look to it in the future, it is in the best interest of everybody (well, maybe not you), to correct something that is potentially misleading.
Why is it misleading? Because if the tang is set for a generator (low and to the left) instead of an alternator (up and to the right), like you have, it would be all the way to the top for maximum volume of the accelerator pump. For the tang set for an alternator, that position is the minimum volume setting and will create real problems for most people. In reality, moving the tag counter clockwise (compared to the screw) is what most people need to do with a mechanical advance distributor. |
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keifernet
Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 19395
Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
| dcnjoe60 wrote: |
| The hole in the throttle plate changes the vacuum signal going to the distributor.. |
Actually, I don't think that the reason for that hole to be larger on DVDA. The reason it's larger on those is to let more air past the closed throttle plate so that the engine will be able to idle better with the timig way back at 5ATDC. With SVDA the timing at idle is 12 degrees advanced, and that bumps the engine speed up considerably. Having a smaller hole on those makes it idle lower - and in both cases it allows the factory volume and air bypass screws to adjust well. When you mismatch those you often find that you have to either put your air bypass (idle speed) screw all the way down or all the way out to compensate, and even then you might not be able to get your idle speed set right.
-Andy |
I agree...
And this thread has been in the FAQ now a while.
It is only the German DVDA flange # carbs that need the mod
to tune/work with SVDA or 009 or DVDA run *without the retard
and set/timed like an SVDA
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=365762&highlight=rivet |
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dcnjoe60
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 434
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| Bug Owner Again wrote: |
Thx for the pics Glutamodo I even rebuilt the carb (1st timer) and I didn't notice or adjust this screw at all. I didn't have any + or - that I could see on mine but thx to your pics I set it to the - side and it seemed to be a bit worse so then I adjusted it more to the + side and the hesitation is solved but I still have a problem when I rev it hard it wants to stall. I have put new spark plugs in,new rotor,dist. cap,points,set timing to 8 deg TDC. I have tried to adjust carb exactly like you have posted but it just wont idle. when I had the idle screw just touching (plus 1/2 turn in) I had the Bypass screw out 3 turns but she refuses to idle. When I turn the Bypass screw out it doesn't want rev to a higher rpm. I have turned it so far out that I sounds like it is sucking a whole lot of air and it still doesn't speed up the rpm's. So then I resorted to turning the idler screw in 3/4 of the way, and turning Volume control screw out 4 turns.It idles nice,and response,but it still wants to stall when i rev it hard.......................any ideas?
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The accelerator pump tang should be moved counter clockwise to increase the volume. For most carbs with a DVDA or a SVDA distributor it should be in the middle or just slightly past the middle (on the plus side if so marked). On 009 distributors, it should be all the way counter clockwise.
What is moving counter clockwise, by the way, is the tang and not the screw itself (the screw is fixed and the tang is rotated counter clockwise).
The picture shown has the pump set to minimum volume. According to the poster this was done because of wear. It is not what you would normally set your accelerator pump to. |
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Bug Owner Again
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2011
Posts: 98
Location: MD
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| dcnjoe60 wrote: |
| glutamodo wrote: |
Exactly. Here's a photo:
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The Bocar 34pict3 should work fine. It is not your problem, but the 009 distributor is. A pop rivet may help, but that is only treating the symptom, the real problem is the distributor.
That said, if that is a picture of your carb, then your accelerator pump is not adjusted correctly. In that picture it is set to the supply the minimum amount of fuel when you press the pedal. It should be at least in the middle if not almost all the way to the plus side. If you are getting stumbling when you hit the accelerator hard, it is because you are not getting enough fuel. Before doing anything else, like switching distributors, or plugging the hole, I'd adjust the pump and see if that helps you out.
EDIT: If you do replace the distributor to an SVDA, you should not need a pop rivet in the throttle plate. It is only needed (when using an SVDA distributor) with select models of the Solex 34pict3. |
Thx for the reply Dcnjoe60 I did readjust the accelerator pump and found that it worked best towards the plus side,So the hesitation has subsided but it still wants to stall when I give it a lot of gas, can you check out my video and tell me what you think?
Thx Randy |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26324
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Well, if the linkage is not worn, then the adjustment works fine then.
However, I have to say, that almost every used carb I've ever seen with that style accel pump adjusters has worn linkage there. And whenever you find wear, you have to move it over to the "-" side to compensate for it. If you don't, there is no way you'll get more volume out of the system, you CAN you when most of the travel of the arm is just floating around taking up play? |
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Bug Owner Again
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2011
Posts: 98
Location: MD
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
Well, if the linkage is not worn, then the adjustment works fine then.
However, I have to say, that almost every used carb I've ever seen with that style accel pump adjusters has worn linkage there. And whenever you find wear, you have to move it over to the "-" side to compensate for it. If you don't, there is no way you'll get more volume out of the system, you CAN you when most of the travel of the arm is just floating around taking up play? |
No doubt,and it makes since to what you are saying. thx for helping me,it was worth a try. I am opened minded to listen,learn,and try anything that me help me and my bug get along a little better 
Did you see the video I posted above? Do you have any suggestions for me? |
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dcnjoe60
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Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 434
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| Bug Owner Again wrote: |
Thx for the reply Dcnjoe60 I did readjust the accelerator pump and found that it worked best towards the plus side,So the hesitation has subsided but it still wants to stall when I give it a lot of gas, can you check out my video and tell me what you think?
Thx Randy |
It sounds to me like your air fuel mixture is off. I would carefully try to readjust it by following the instructions found at www.vw-resource.com
You shouldn't have to keep popping the accelerator to keep it idling and the bypass screw (the big one, that sets the idle speed) won't be very effective if the volume screw (small one, that sets the air mixture) isn't set correctly.
While the Bocar 34pict3 doesn't need the pop rivet for an SVDA distributor, it would still benefit from it with an 009. One thing some people do is to set the idle around 1000 with an 009. The pop rivet would be the better solution, but some people hesitate to do that. With an 009, you probably want your accelerator pump to be set at the maximum volume (all the way counter clockwise). Both of these, higher idle and accelerator pump volume at max enrichen the mixture which helps with the stumbling from the 009.
If you are going to change the accelerator pump setting, you should do it before readjusting the rest of the carb. Also, you should verify your distributor timing with an 009, it should really be set around 30-32 BTDC at 3000+ rpm instead of 7.5BTDC at idle. Again, I would do this prior to readjusting the carb.
Hope that helps. |
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