Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Power Mirror Refurbishment and Installation
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Classicvibe
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2009
Posts: 733
Location: Salt Lake City
Classicvibe is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:33 am    Post subject: Power Mirror Refurbishment and Installation Reply with quote

I have the standard shatty manual mirrors (floppy syndrome) and I just bought a pair of power mirrors. For those with the older mirrors, you will be happy to know that these are beefier, there are no "floppy" issues to be had, the mirrors and the housings are larger, and if you choose to wire them up, you can heat them and power them. For me, I just want to refurbish them and do a proper install. I have a couple of questions.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

First, one of the mirrors is "burnt" I guess you would say. I saw the replacements on Van-Cafe for like $70, and that just seems ridiculous for a single mirror, as I paid $50 for both!
Power Mirror Glass Left Side Flat #251.857.521
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1346_614/power_mirror_glass_left_side_flat.html
I realize that is an expensive VW thing and not Van-Cafe, but there has got to be an easier and less expensive replacement method. Can a local glass shop do a flat and a convex mirror? It seems I could take that and get it copied pretty easily?

Van-Cafe offers another "stick-on" product, but I am considering wiring up the defrost function, and I think I would lose that ability if I stuck the new mirror on top of the old. This is a possibility however if I cannot find another method. The stick on is like $37, and simple, but I need to pop the mirrors out anyway to do a proper re-paint.

Next, how do I pop that out and swap? I could learn myself, but this would likely be at the expense of some hard to find plastic part. Anyone have experience with this?

Finally, there is kind of a clear coat on the outside of these things. As you can see in this pic, mine is worn.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I would like to change the color and bring them back to new. What is the best method to repaint and how do I apply a new layer of the clear coat material (what is it?)?

Geez, and one more thing...any opinions on a clean mount? I am guessing these require some new holes, perhaps a gasket as well?
_________________
On a mission, the destination is just an excuse.

Syncro Solstice 2016...you goin?

1986.5 Wolfsburg Westfalia Weekender Poptop Syncro
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bjrogers86auto
Samba Member


Joined: March 26, 2009
Posts: 1297
Location: Halifax, N.S.
bjrogers86auto is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:45 am    Post subject: mirrors Reply with quote

I have the standard mirrors and I just replaced the glass in one. I went to a FLAGS. (friendly local auto glass store) heehee. The guy cut it from scrap and didn't even charge me...a first.

To remove the glass I pried around the bead around the edge of the mirror. It damaged the plastic a bit but I managed to repair it later. There is likely a better method but I was cranky for breaking the glass in the first place!

I used silicone to hold the bead and glass in place...duct tape until it set...then a touch of JB Weld to fix cracks and crevices then finally Krylon Fusion paint. Mine are black and they look great...now.

Is the floppy mirror syndrome more than tightening the nut inside? Mine were floppy when I bought it but the nut inside tightened up and all was good. Just wondering.

Hope this was a help.
Brian.
_________________
86 Vanagon GL Westfalia 2.1
17 Honda Civic Hatchback
15 Golf Wagen Tsi

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day. Calvin and Hobbes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pinealservo
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2010
Posts: 155
Location: Lehi, UT
pinealservo is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice, I've been wanting to get a pair of power mirrors as well, but as with most of my van projects, I haven't got to it yet. The refinishing technique is likely just standard automotive refinishing. Sand off all that old peeling stuff down to the primer and then apply a new finish. I imagine the housings are plastic, so if you blow through the primer while sanding, you'll probably want a plastic adhesion promoter as the first coat, then new primer. I think they make a flex additive for painting plastic parts which allows the paint to be more flexible than normal to avoid cracks, but that may be more for bumpers than mirror pods. The gurus in the paint forum here could probably give some good advice.

If you don't want to spend a lot, you could sand off the finish and hit them with black plastic paint from a spray can. An auto parts store will have cans of 'trim black' paint. If you want to color match it to the van, your best move is probably to take a paint sample from your van and a mirror pod to an automotive paint supplier and have them advise you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good timing for your questions as I just finished a set, along with factory cruise control, going to Australia to upgrade a Syncro Doka.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I cleaned, sanded, primed and painted them with the factory trim black from Wurth.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I supply all factory connectors and wires.
Spending the time to carefully remove the wire ends from the plastic connectors takes terminal tools and patience.

Yes, the non power mirror doors will be missing the third attachment point and will need a threaded insert.
The mirror assembly has a triangular plastic gasket that is usually hard to come by new.
Classic VW in Germany has started to reproduce them, but I have not seen them reach the US vendors yet.

The heated mirror glass is NLA and due to this my cost for this kit is out of reach for most, but I do sell them on a regular basis.

I have three kits available:
Trim black complete
Non metallic body color matched complete
Metallic body color matched complete

I do not sell non working parts nor do I sell individual parts any longer.

dylan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Classicvibe
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2009
Posts: 733
Location: Salt Lake City
Classicvibe is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: mirrors Reply with quote

Comments inline:

bjrogers86auto wrote:
I have the standard mirrors and I just replaced the glass in one. I went to a FLAGS. (friendly local auto glass store) heehee. The guy cut it from scrap and didn't even charge me...a first.


This is what I hoped for the flat piece, and although my convex piece is OK, I wouldn't mind replacing it as well, and this will be an issue for the local guys I am guessing...


bjrogers86auto wrote:
Krylon Fusion paint. Mine are black and they look great...now.

This will likely be my same route...

bjrogers86auto wrote:
Is the floppy mirror syndrome more than tightening the nut inside? Mine were floppy when I bought it but the nut inside tightened up and all was good. Just wondering.

Hope this was a help.
Brian.


The plastic can be cracked and/or broken, so the tightening or rubber grommet thing does not always work. The plastic on both of mine was cracked, so if I tightened, they would both snap.
_________________
On a mission, the destination is just an excuse.

Syncro Solstice 2016...you goin?

1986.5 Wolfsburg Westfalia Weekender Poptop Syncro
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bjrogers86auto
Samba Member


Joined: March 26, 2009
Posts: 1297
Location: Halifax, N.S.
bjrogers86auto is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:59 am    Post subject: mirrors Reply with quote

OK..thanks. Mine were cracked along the arm as well. I filled that in with JB and sanded it off and painted. They still get tight...thats how I broke the glass in the first place!

In your search for glass, you as always, will want to call around. I had one place wanting to order the glass for me for $50! I kinda mentioned she was crazy and she hung up. No sense of haha in some folks...

Brian.
_________________
86 Vanagon GL Westfalia 2.1
17 Honda Civic Hatchback
15 Golf Wagen Tsi

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day. Calvin and Hobbes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Classicvibe
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2009
Posts: 733
Location: Salt Lake City
Classicvibe is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Insyncro...

Thanks for the post and pics. Those look very nice. Let me just ask a couple of detailed questions...

Is there a trick to popping out the glass?

The Wurth product, why did you select that particular product?

It sound like the heating element and the mirror are one piece? If so, can two different pieces be merged to make this work?

I have no idea how to approach this threaded insert...ideas?

Thanks for sharing your talents!
_________________
On a mission, the destination is just an excuse.

Syncro Solstice 2016...you goin?

1986.5 Wolfsburg Westfalia Weekender Poptop Syncro
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Classicvibe wrote:
Insyncro...

Is there a trick to popping out the glass?

The Wurth product, why did you select that particular product?

It sound like the heating element and the mirror are one piece? If so, can two different pieces be merged to make this work?

I have no idea how to approach this threaded insert...ideas?

Thanks for sharing your talents!


The mirror glass and heating element are one piece.
They do not come apart.
You can either use a broken mirror glass assembly and secure a new mirror to it, just as available from VC and loose the heating element of the glass or try to find a good used replacement glass.

A threaded insert is a large rivet with internal threads that you attach a bolt too.
I use them for panel fasteners and many other upgrades where you need to be able to remove the part easily.
I have two tools to set the threaded inserts, one Snap On the other is a Wurth...both are hundereds of dollars.
I don't really know how to attach the mirror without them.

I use Wurth products throughout my restorations and upgrades as I feel they are the highest quality available and many were used at the factory when the vehicle was being produced, so everything matches beautifully.
Yes, they are extremely expensive and you must be a dealer to get them.
Goodspeed in the classifieds section sells a few of the spray can products and offers to direct order any product they don't stock.

Hope this helps.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
PDXWesty
Samba Member


Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 5635
Location: Portland OR
PDXWesty is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you look closely behind the mirror by tilting it all one direction, there is a tab on a ring that you need to slide to unlock the mirror and heater assembly from the housing. It's like an 1/8 turn lock ring that needs to rotate to unlock the mirror. I'm sure someone has a picture in here somewhere. Be careful.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=414891&highlight=mirror+remove

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
89 Westy 2.1 Auto
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
snuf
Samba Member


Joined: April 15, 2008
Posts: 111
Location: TN
snuf is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Power Mirror Refurbishment and Installation Reply with quote

Classicvibe wrote:

Next, how do I pop that out and swap? I could learn myself, but this would likely be at the expense of some hard to find plastic part. Anyone have experience with this?



It has been awhile since I replaced my standard mirrors with the power mirrors, but from what I recall, If you look between the gaps on both sides of the mirrors you should see a tab in the middle of each side.
These tabs are connected to a disc that rotates to lock the mirror in
Using something like a popsicle stick, push one tab up and the other down (or vise versa), this should release the mirror.

After a light sanding, I used Black Krylon Fusion Plastic spray paint.

I mounted mine using the two existing mirror holes and have not have had any problems. http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=811
_________________
86' Wolfsberg Weekender
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member


Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 7827
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
Vanagon Nut is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A well respected list member sold me a pair last Winter. (unnamed. Don't want people hounding him for parts?) He even let me paint them up at his place!

Scuff, clean, Krylon plastic paint, propah SS flush head bolts, bingo. Best upgrade ever. They shame the rest of my van.

Neil like!

Edit; don't forget the gasket(s).


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1981 VanaJetta 2.0 Westy "Jaco"

Nearly "perfect" 50 ABA Swap to '88 Westy:

http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://sites.google.com/site/t2t3vaggasengineswaps/home

My Air Cooled Vanagon to 15 Jetta ABA swap pages:

http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pushkick
Samba Member


Joined: August 09, 2007
Posts: 1225

pushkick is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The mirror glass and heating element are one piece.
They do not come apart.
You can either use a broken mirror glass assembly and secure a new mirror to it, just as available from VC and loose the heating element of the glass or try to find a good used replacement glass.


the mirror glass and heating element are not one piece and the aluminum is the split in two halves and a resistor (10ohms) heating element is between the aluminum halves. the aluminum is insulated and is adhered to the glass with a plastic putty. i have not been able to find the square flat resistor heating element.
_________________
i see said the blind man to his deaf dog
i am going to quit smoking and drinking and die a healthy man. gotta laugh
there is no deed to the planet earth
1990 vw automatic camper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
insyncro
Banned


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
insyncro is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pushkick wrote:
Quote:
The mirror glass and heating element are one piece.
They do not come apart.
You can either use a broken mirror glass assembly and secure a new mirror to it, just as available from VC and loose the heating element of the glass or try to find a good used replacement glass.


the mirror glass and heating element are not one piece and the aluminum is the split in two halves and a resistor (10ohms) heating element is between the aluminum halves. the aluminum is insulated and is adhered to the glass with a plastic putty. i have not been able to find the square flat resistor heating element.


Exactly....it is replaced with one piece, the entire mirror glass, if you can find them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
randywebb
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
randywebb is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vanagon Nut wrote:


... don't forget the gasket(s).




I have a question about those gaskets. When you swap from the old manual mirrors to the new power mirrors, where do you get the gaskets?

Are the gaskets rubber or a thin hard hard plastic? (I may have one if the latter).

Also, I understand you have to drill a new mounting hole -- do you just put a nut there or do you need any special reinforcement to protect the door sheet metal from being pulled and warped or ripped out?
_________________
1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BenT Syncro
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2005
Posts: 1044
Location: San Francisco
BenT Syncro is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

randywebb wrote:
Vanagon Nut wrote:


... don't forget the gasket(s).




I have a question about those gaskets. When you swap from the old manual mirrors to the new power mirrors, where do you get the gaskets?

Are the gaskets rubber or a thin hard hard plastic? (I may have one if the latter).

Also, I understand you have to drill a new mounting hole -- do you just put a nut there or do you need any special reinforcement to protect the door sheet metal from being pulled and warped or ripped out?


Randy,

That hard plastic triangle like piece is the gasket. I've been running two of my Vanagons without the 3rd screw for about ten years now without any issues. However, you can put a 'nutsert' in there as the best alternative to stock IMHO. Others have used sheetmetal screws or a freewheeling nut on the inside. I think the latter solution is also a good anti-theft measure. They'd have to get in to the van and roll the window down to take the mirrors.
_________________
BenT
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BenT Syncro
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2005
Posts: 1044
Location: San Francisco
BenT Syncro is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

insyncro wrote:
Good timing for your questions as I just finished a set, along with factory cruise control, going to Australia to upgrade a Syncro Doka.


That should be interesting. IIRC, the RHD mirrors are aimed slightly different than our LHD mirrors.
_________________
BenT
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
werksberg
Samba Member


Joined: February 08, 2005
Posts: 2053
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
werksberg is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shhsss....don't tell anyone but the square power window switch looks to be the same as a Scirocco / Golf one too.....
_________________
Werksberg Products....Products that work!

Follow my new products on my Facebook Werks Berg
Click the below ADs link for products & feedback.
Search "werksberg" on Photobucket for products photos & Please remember to buy "American made products!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jerrydog411
Samba Member


Joined: September 28, 2009
Posts: 383
Location: North Vancouver, BC
jerrydog411 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Neil that this is one of the best upgrades I have done .. (of many) .. although IMHO, I do not share the necessity of a threaded insert for a third (lower) mounting hole / attachment.
The top two work fine for me and I have had these on for 2 years, a ton of driving including .. daily driver 9lots), trip from Vancouver, BC to SoCal & back, a trip last month from Vancouver to Sept Iles, QC (4000 miles) and am currently in the MOFN driving around on unpaved lumpy, bumpy mining roads and they have never gone out of adjustment or needed a re-torque of the two top bolts ... just my humble, experienced opinion.
I am sure adding the 3rd attachment would be more secure & more 'factory' ... just overkill for my application.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
16CVs
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 2756
Location: Redwood City, California
16CVs is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:43 pm    Post subject: Mirrors Reply with quote

I concur with Ben that RHD cars have a different ""drivers side mirror than a LHD .
As far as the replacement mirrors which are designed to be glued on over the top of th existing mirrors, I supply these to various Vendors. I actually took a stock mirror plate with one of my mirror double stuck on and froze it over night ,I then hooked it to 12 Volts and it defrosted just as well as a stock unit .
I have tried to separate the stock mirror from the backing and do not advise doing it ,as it will destroy the backing plate.
I do not sell the mirrors directly . I can let you know who may have my units to buy ,but you would have to buy them form there.

Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Multivan Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980

Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.


Last edited by 16CVs on Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BenT Syncro
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2005
Posts: 1044
Location: San Francisco
BenT Syncro is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's my understanding the heating element is strong enough to heat the underlying defective mirror plus the new stick-on mirror as well.
_________________
BenT
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB