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joebug1956
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 362
Location: Richmond VA
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 Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:12 pm Post subject: War wagens |
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Saw these at work. Came from the ordinance museum from APG Maryland, they are closing the base and reopening it at Ft. Lee where I work.
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xeno
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2006
Posts: 653
Location: Mile High
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:14 am Post subject: Re: War wagens |
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| joebug1956 wrote: |
Saw these at work. Came from the ordinance museum from APG Maryland, they are closing the base and reopening it at Ft. Lee where I work.
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It's not so manly to faint... 
Nice... Are they heading for DRMO?
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aa390392
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2007
Posts: 3602
Location: So.Cal
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:41 am Post subject: |
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where will they be on display? Id like to re allocate them to my garage 
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Kapt. Q
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2011
Posts: 256
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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The Schwimmwagen shows why APG shouldn't have been trusted to keep lawn mowers let alone rare historical vehicles. Missmatched wheels, missing parts a spray job done by an idiot to include the roof canvas and tires, a license plate off a motorcycle, broken headlight. stripped dashboard, etc. Still at least it's in better condition than many of the rare and even prototype tanks they've kept rotting there. So sad to see important history neglected, especially history that cost the blood of forefathers.
Last edited by Kapt. Q on Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24059
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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These vehicles are historic simply for being the Aberdeen Proving Grounds Kubelwagen and Schwimmwagen. They look reasonably well preserved.
These vehicles were well documented, including wartime photos. I believe these are the official, captured vehicles that were shipped to the U.S. for testing, and photographed for war department field manuals to be used by U.S. troops in Europe.
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Kapt. Q
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2011
Posts: 256
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Blue Baron wrote: |
These vehicles are historic simply for being the Aberdeen Proving Grounds Kubelwagen and Schwimmwagen. They look reasonably well preserved.
These vehicles were well documented, including wartime photos. I believe these are the official, captured vehicles that were shipped to the U.S. for testing, and photographed for war department field manuals to be used by U.S. troops in Europe. |
It's your nations heritage, not mine. These vehicles are historic in their own right, and there is a duty to you and the next generations to look after this stuff. You will not see anything in a European museum as poorly preserved as that at APG, including those museums that are still part of the army, like Bovington Tank Museum, UK. |
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Wiggy
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2003
Posts: 6601
Location: Downingtown, PA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Kapt. Q wrote: |
| Blue Baron wrote: |
These vehicles are historic simply for being the Aberdeen Proving Grounds Kubelwagen and Schwimmwagen. They look reasonably well preserved.
These vehicles were well documented, including wartime photos. I believe these are the official, captured vehicles that were shipped to the U.S. for testing, and photographed for war department field manuals to be used by U.S. troops in Europe. |
It's your nations heritage, not mine. These vehicles are historic in their own right, and there is a duty to you and the next generations to look after this stuff. You will not see anything in a European museum as poorly preserved as that at APG, including those museums that are still part of the army, like Bovington Tank Museum, UK. |
Then STFU and go visit those museums.
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FASTBACKDON
The other insensitive jerk like Neil
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 3592
Location: TORRANCE CALIF
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| Wiggy wrote: |
| Kapt. Q wrote: |
| Blue Baron wrote: |
These vehicles are historic simply for being the Aberdeen Proving Grounds Kubelwagen and Schwimmwagen. They look reasonably well preserved.
These vehicles were well documented, including wartime photos. I believe these are the official, captured vehicles that were shipped to the U.S. for testing, and photographed for war department field manuals to be used by U.S. troops in Europe. |
It's your nations heritage, not mine. These vehicles are historic in their own right, and there is a duty to you and the next generations to look after this stuff. You will not see anything in a European museum as poorly preserved as that at APG, including those museums that are still part of the army, like Bovington Tank Museum, UK. |
Then STFU and go visit those museums. |
Thank you Wiggy.
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usariemen
Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 1745
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Kapt. Q wrote: |
... You will not see anything in a European museum as poorly preserved as that ... |
You will, believe me, you will.
Not often. But sometimes.
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Kapt. Q
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2011
Posts: 256
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Wiggy wrote: |
| Kapt. Q wrote: |
| Blue Baron wrote: |
These vehicles are historic simply for being the Aberdeen Proving Grounds Kubelwagen and Schwimmwagen. They look reasonably well preserved.
These vehicles were well documented, including wartime photos. I believe these are the official, captured vehicles that were shipped to the U.S. for testing, and photographed for war department field manuals to be used by U.S. troops in Europe. |
It's your nations heritage, not mine. These vehicles are historic in their own right, and there is a duty to you and the next generations to look after this stuff. You will not see anything in a European museum as poorly preserved as that at APG, including those museums that are still part of the army, like Bovington Tank Museum, UK. |
Then STFU and go visit those museums. |
Perhaps you see what I'm saying as an attack on America, but this is not the case, you have many fine museums, The Smithsonian Flight and Space Museum for one, probably the best in the world in it's field.
So what am I saying? That the vehicles and those who want to see and enjoy them deserve better. So for saying this you want me to 'STFU'?
Last edited by Kapt. Q on Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2004
Posts: 2027
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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I hope they're moved to a place where the general public can see them on display!
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Vealmonkey
Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2007
Posts: 103
Location: Balltimore, MD
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| At APG, they were in a place where the general public could see them. I saw them many times. The kubel and schwimmer were in a couple different displays at one time or another and both were inside the ordinance museum. Much better treatment than the tanks. At one time, Aberdeen had a live demonstration of what the tanks would on a field that had grandstands lining both sides of the field. The had WW1 tanks all the way up to the modern day and they did live fire demonstrations on most of them. The display of the worlds firearms there is/was absolutely incredible. |
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volksaddict
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2003
Posts: 1724
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| that's awesome. Imagine seeing a kubel and shwimm at your work Thanks for sharing. |
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merlin42
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2005
Posts: 93
Location: Westminster, MD
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Both vehicles were captured in North Africa during WW2. The Kubel at the time of capture was missing two doors and headlights. You can see the Kubel in a 1944 Popular Science article being tested at Aberdeen if you go to the KDF 82E Archives at hansonmechanical.com Those little headlights were put on by the US Army during WW2.
I know the curator who is dealing with the move. If I have any updates on the vehicles and their display I will post. Currently I know of no plans to do any further restoration to them. Interestingly the Schwimmer has its original roof from WW2. The horrible paint over was probably done back in the 1960's or 1970's. I had a chance to evaluate these vehicles before their move.
have fun,
-Merlin |
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9640
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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"Both vehicles were captured in North Africa during WW2"
My dad worked in the Motorpool in NorthAfrica under Rommel in WW2 (he's German). I'd like to think it might have been possible that he did some maintenance work on either one... 
Unfortunately he passed away in 1980, long before I was actively interested in old VWs. Though he did demonstrate how he and a couple other soldiers were able to turn a Kuebel around if it did not run/could not roll... yep, we tried it on my '60 Beetle in the mid 70's and it worked! |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| merlin42 wrote: |
| Both vehicles were captured in North Africa during WW2. |
Maybe the Kubel was, but no way for the Schwimmer. Schwimmers weren't used in N.A. Why would they send an amphibious vehicle to a place without water?
That particular Schwimmer is a late 43/early 44. Long after Germany withdrew from N.A.
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: War wagens |
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| joebug1956 wrote: |
| Saw these at work. Came from the ordinance museum from APG Maryland, they are closing the base and reopening it at Ft. Lee where I work. |
You should tell them to swap one front wheel/tire from the Kubel to the Schwimmer. That should better match up the tires on the Kubel. Then tell them to NEVER put the Schwimmer in 4 wheel drive with those mismatched tires.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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merlin42
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2005
Posts: 93
Location: Westminster, MD
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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The records I have show the Kubel coming from North Africa, as for the Schwimm that is just what is was told. Honestly I was wondering the same thing.
-Merlin |
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J.Glo
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2008
Posts: 176
Location: Dayton, OH
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:29 am Post subject: Re: War wagens |
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| joebug1956 wrote: |
Nice... Are they heading for DRMO? |
if those go to drmo heads should roll
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24059
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Kapt. Q wrote: |
| It's your nations heritage, not mine. |
I believe our two nations were allies.
At any rate, field changes can be considered provenance, especially when there's photographic evidence to back them up. I remember seeing a photo of a captured Kubelwagen missing doors, and with little headlights like these in Dan Post's Volkswagen Nine Lives Later. Could it be the same car?
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