head gasket blues

ftp2leta · Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:02 pm Post subject:

Looking at your sleeve (picture above) this engine didn't had a good water/coolant mix, the rust shown on the (bad ha ha) picture tell me that this is why your have so much trouble.

Ben
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Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
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duderanchero · Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:14 pm Post subject:

ben, i think so, too. the PO seems to have been an even bigger doofus than me, and i blame him for most of the stuff.

i guess i should take the pistons out then? or would they rehabilitate themselves inside the engine with a proper dose of glycol?

IdahoDoug · Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:28 pm Post subject:

To add a bit here, the type of force required to remove them is not just a yank or a hit with a mallet when prying on the tabs. It's a sustained high prying force. Like as strong as you can hold for a solid 15 seconds. Then go under and do the same. It's moving infinitesmally each time but it's the strong hold that seems to do it.

DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

duderanchero · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:56 am Post subject:

believe me, i've put a ton of sustained force against those tabs.

i didn't do anything productive tonight. i think we'll just take the truck for this trip. bummer, but better than sitting around here forever. i'll pick up the parts i need in the meantime, and hopefully the work will go more smoothly in the future.

duderanchero · Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject:

so, i gave it another go, and finally pulled that friggin' head off. this triumph of strength and perseverance was a rather joyous event. however, it would appear one of the sleeves came out too far (the other slid back with minimal finagling).

how do i know for sure if it's out too far? i crank the pulley, but the piston moves along with the sleeve, no matter how i finagle.

here's a picture:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

and here's what i managed to pry the stuck sleeves with:

thanks to everyone who's helped me out so far. without your reassurances that i could get the sleeves unstuck, i almost certainly would have given up. the annoying thing is, it was just a baby tug that freed them. if you have very stuck cylinders, i recommend (as many recommended to me) buying/inventing the longest, fattest, torquiest lever you can fit in there. no screwdriver i've ever seen would be capable of freeing cylinders as stuck as mine were.

i don't think that chisel's coming out of the 13mm socket anytime soon.

oh, and for your entertainment, here's what remained of the water jacket:

ftp2leta · Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject:

Ha ha ha, look at this poor rubber head gasket, I real joke.
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

shadetreetim · Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:31 pm Post subject:

Sometime in the future I'll have to replace mine as well. Thanks for sharing your experience.
_________________
Tim Potts

Doing my best every time I drive it to dispel the myth these Vanagons have to be slow!

'89 Vanagon Bluestar/Country Homes 1.8T & .77 4th
'74 Jeep CJ5

duderanchero · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:05 am Post subject:

tim, i'm trying not to look too closely at the driver side gasket, as i'm sure it needs replacing, too. maybe i'll just use the right stuff instead of the rubber jacket on that side. i don't really see the wisdom in replacing an old faulty part with a new faulty part, but some people say it was the factory sealant used on the water jacket that causes the corrosion, but then why not just make your own silicone gasket (a la morymob) or use some good gasket maker?

i think for someone who has half an idea what they're doing (i don't) and a little bit of luck (didn't have too much of that either), both sides could be done in a productive day or two.

me, i'll take a couple weeks, and still not finish the job.

Petervw · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:43 am Post subject:

are you going to inspect to determine how deep the cracks are between the valves..

duderanchero · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:52 am Post subject:

the cracks are there. a tiny fracture (<1mm) between each. i'm not gonna sweat it.

Petervw · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:46 am Post subject:

duderanchero · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:07 pm Post subject:

that's troublesome to hear, peter. i'm going to try to avoid dropping the motor, especially as i don't even have a working floor jack. of course, i also lack a piston ring compressor and other tools i'll need for the job, but hey.

i'm financially not able to replace the heads now, so i'm just hoping this fix (if i ever get it fixed) will buy me some quality time.

xoo00oox · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject:

If you did pull that cylinder past the rings, the engine does not need to come out. You can make the chamfer at the base of the cylinder bigger using a grinder to make it easier to slide back on. Use a split type ring compressor.

Petervw · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject:

Petervw · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:10 pm Post subject:

duderanchero · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:08 pm Post subject:

thanks, xo and peter, for the technique ideas. i can't exactly visualize either right now, but i probably need some black tea.

morymob · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:17 am Post subject:

After u figure how to remove piston your patience may be tested even more getting the piston pin started into the rod, there is the pin clips that can be more fun. Not trying to rain on your parade but for a nubie this can be frustrating, but we all learned how so just keep trying.By the way idid just make up my own ring compressor to work, 1st style i had to pull cyl back off to remove it.

xoo00oox · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:30 am Post subject:

No need to remove piston in this case as long as none of the rings got broken.

morymob · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:44 am Post subject:

I would remove piston to check rings for being stuck also after 1st motor i found putting piston in cyl and sticking out so pin can be put into rod worked best. Only once did i reuse rings on one side because of the situation i was in at the time. No parts available , rings free, rehoned cyl and it worked fine ,even comp on both cyls and i ran a couple yrs before sold.

duderanchero · Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:28 am Post subject:

is it a terrible idea to run the engine with an oil scraper ring missing, or just a bad one?

i could almost taste it...

**there's a piston ring set on the way, if napa's not pulling my leg. i was mostly kidding about running without an oil scraper, but was unable to raise anyone's ire. of course, everyone else has probably got their nice, functional vans out on the weekend.


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