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gschoep
Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2011
Posts: 28
Location: Bozeman MT
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 Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:14 pm Post subject: Oil everywhere! - Type 4 removal and inspection |
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Last summer my 72 westy developed a pretty severe oil leak so I parked it for the winter.
I pulled the engine and an starting disassembly to find the oil leak and inspect the engine. The plan is to disassemble the engine, inspect and fix what is needed, and learn something in the process. I dont have the money to do a full rebuild and supposedly the engine had 20K before it was parked in 2000.
I have created a Google speadsheet with parts and costs for the repair. Please feel free to chime in if a part I have spec-ed is wrong or known to be unreliable. I will update the spreadsheet so that others who want to follow along will be able to plan what is a realistic repair/rebuild.
Here is a link to the spreadsheet. https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl...utput=html
I know little about my engine besides that it is supposed to be 2000 cc. I know that it has 72-74 heater boxes. As I learn about what I have I will post the how and why so the rest of the newbies have a reference like I would want.
For my references I have "How to keep your Volkswagen alive" which I know is known here as Muir. And I have Wilson's "How to Rebuild your Volkswagen Air-Cooled Engine." I have Muir because that is what I learned on with my 67 bug back in 86. The Wilson book is a reference but unfortunately not Type-4 specific. I also read Ratwell, and of course TheSamba which are most of the time the best references I have found.
I printed out Richard Atwell's steps to remove a Bus engine luckily before he stopped maintaining his site and all the pictures became broken links.
It was not difficult except for two things:
1. It was nearly impossible to get a socket in the 13 mm nuts on the exhaust "headers" on the heater boxes. So I had to leave them in the car until I removed the engine.
2. When you dont remove the heater control boxes they interfere as the engine is pulled back to clear the transmission shaft. So the arms on my delicate original control boxes are now bent to heck. (Not that they weren't in need of replacement already. |
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VDubTech
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2002
Posts: 9156
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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That's one of the millions of reasons you pull the engine and tranny together.
_________________
First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=
| borninabus wrote: |
| a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful. |
| notchboy wrote: |
| my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars. |
| EverettB wrote: |
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery |
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gschoep
Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2011
Posts: 28
Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a picture of my assistants. Notice how clean they are?
The really cool engine trolley is the bottom of an old office chair. The plywood is screwed down so that my jack could hold the whole trolley assembly up to the engine. |
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gschoep
Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2011
Posts: 28
Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| VDubTech wrote: |
| That's one of the millions of reasons you pull the engine and tranny together. |
Probably so. It is how Atwell suggests it. |
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gschoep
Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2011
Posts: 28
Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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This is what I get from the codes on my engine:
Fan Shroud - CB047893
49 kW 66BHP 1.7L 8-71 thru 12-73
Block - GE020126
51kW 70 BHP 2.0L 8-76 thru 7-79 Calif only, Vanagon heads,
Heads - 021 101 372G
37.5mm intake 33mm exhaust, CHT one one side, other plain, sodium filled exhaust, fuel injected head
source - Wilson T., How to..
I do have a large hole near the intake on the 3-4 side but there does not seem to be a cht anywhere on the 1-2 head.
I also noticed something strange. One of my intake valves are a different size. It looks like one intake (#1) is a 39.3mm 1800 valve where the rest are stock.
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52669
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| When pulling the engine by itself, you just need to drop the rear of the tranny down several inches before you pull the engine back. You will have plenty of clearance if you do it that way. |
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secretsubmariner
Champagne Wrangler
Joined: January 08, 2011
Posts: 3109
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| gschoep wrote: |
| The really cool engine trolley is the bottom of an old office chair. The plywood is screwed down so that my jack could hold the whole trolley assembly up to the engine. |
Dude, that's a pretty awesome idea
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-Tony
ᏣᎳᎩᎯ ᎠᏰᎵ
1978 Champagne Edition Bus FI
1970 Auto Fastback FI |
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BumbleBus
Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2009
Posts: 483
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:03 am Post subject: |
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As a fellow Montanan also with a '72 also contemplating a pancake tear down this fall/winter I'm eager to see how this thread progresses. Thx for sharing. 
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'72 L11H Campmobile in various stages of disrepair. Just bumbling along... |
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jtauxe 
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5978
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| When pulling the engine by itself, you just need to drop the rear of the tranny down several inches before you pull the engine back. You will have plenty of clearance if you do it that way. |
Yup yup yup.
I just pulled two engines. I thought I'd try doing it leaving the tranny hanging from the frame, per Atwell, but this was much more difficult. Drop the rear of the transaxle a bit and it is all much easier.
One thing, though -- is there any attention required at the front end of the transaxle when lowering its back end, or is it happy to rotate the 10-15 degrees without hurting anything?
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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GusC2it
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2005
Posts: 1376
Location: Orlando, Florida, USA
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GusC2it
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2005
Posts: 1376
Location: Orlando, Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| GusC2it wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| When pulling the engine by itself, you just need to drop the rear of the tranny down several inches before you pull the engine back. You will have plenty of clearance if you do it that way. |
That is the way I've done it hundreds of times! |
You need to support the trans with a jack, or hang it using coathanger so it doesn't hang down too low. Common sense should prevail.
_________________
75 type 2 http://gusc1.tripod.com/1975vwtype2
Old vices have now been upgraded to bad habits.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/VW-Wild-Weekend-2011-St-Pete-Fl/197064760336111 |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52669
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| jtauxe wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| When pulling the engine by itself, you just need to drop the rear of the tranny down several inches before you pull the engine back. You will have plenty of clearance if you do it that way. |
Yup yup yup.
I just pulled two engines. I thought I'd try doing it leaving the tranny hanging from the frame, per Atwell, but this was much more difficult. Drop the rear of the transaxle a bit and it is all much easier.
One thing, though -- is there any attention required at the front end of the transaxle when lowering its back end, or is it happy to rotate the 10-15 degrees without hurting anything? |
I have always loosened the front mount enough to allow for the movement. Don't know that it is really necessary to do though. |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42913
Location: at the beach in Northern Wokistan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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The bellhousing end needs to come down first then the nose slides out. Going in the nose slides up and in first.
I use this for the motor - the holes fit the engine carrier nuts on the bottom and keep it from sliding.
This holds the trans. The nail sits in the hole undernearth and keeps it from sliding off the jack. There is another piece of wood that is nailed to the 2x4 that sits down in the jack.
_________________
 Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).
George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."
Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice" |
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GusC2it
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2005
Posts: 1376
Location: Orlando, Florida, USA
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tootype2crazy
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 1276
Location: St. Louis Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Don't know why everyone is saying it's so hard to remove the engine by itself without moving the transaxle, I just did it by myself in 105 degree weather in two hours. Of course I have done it like 15 times before. 
_________________
air-cooled or nothing for me
1978 Sunroof Deluxe Bus (daily driver)
1978 Transporter (mom's, making into a camper)
1970 Single Cab 2.1 turbo/EFI 6 Rib, 78 front beam, vanagon backing plates on rear (project)
2001 GTI VR6 (wife's) |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42913
Location: at the beach in Northern Wokistan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| tootype2crazy wrote: |
| Don't know why everyone is saying it's so hard to remove the engine by itself without moving the transaxle, I just did it by myself in 105 degree weather in two hours. Of course I have done it like 15 times before. |
what year bus do you have?
_________________
Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).
George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."
Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice" |
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gschoep
Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2011
Posts: 28
Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Is there any reason to have one intake valve larger?
I guess some people suggest using the big 1800 valves but I wonder if just one was (could be anything but) a mistake.
Should I put the same valve in the other cyl? |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 53166
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:44 am Post subject: |
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My guess is it was the only thing the shop that repaired the head last had in stock, you want all 4 valves to match so........
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