Another 86 Syncro restoration

[bluefirefly]

Oups, forgot to add comment about the van since we drove close to 200 miles with it.

Yesterday before going out after the longer front stud instalation, we bleed those brake again (that was needed, really) and since everything is secure inside the van, we played.
I know I got the small wheel on it, but it is really good.
Of course, we did everything on it (Audi 2 pistons caliper, bigger rotor from a Jetta, SS brake lines everywhere and bigger brake booster and new Brembo drums) but, what a difference.
Even with the factory 14", I was not really feeling safe but now, the van stop!
I am pretty sure it might change a little with our bigger wheels, I'll comment on that later.


Now, talk about the motor.
Did the break'in last week, nice and easy but high RPM.
I didn't push the pedal to the metal ,I don't like the idea on a new motor but I make it take some rev and it seems really easy.
Again, we did a lot of it (2.2l from GW with camshaft, 1.25 rocker from CB, oil pump form CB, new heads from AMC and tencent full exhaust).
I don't remember too much before with small wheels but we drove on the highway and some uphill were at 100km/h (62mph) to the floor before and yesterday, I wasn't pushing much at 110km/h (70mph).
On flat, easy to get at 130km/h (80mph) but i don't like to keep it, motor is over 4000rpm, all of that without front door windows, a lot of wind is getting inside.

But, I need to remember you, this is a van, not a Westy.
BTW, we did weight it yesterday, both of us in front:
Front:960kgs (front empty should be 840kgs)
Rear:760kgs
Total:1720kgs

So, again, really happy with the motor, good oil pressure all the time, water temp is on the low, since we have SS coolant pipe and heater at their max, usually under 90C, oil a little higher on the highway.

The van itself, really high on those small wheels, some body rolling that I won't correct this year (stiffer stabilizater barre latter, no time for that now), a little stiff of bumps with those higher springs.

The only thing we'll need to adress in a short time, it is the alternator.
Both batteries aren't charging enought (got only 12.6V) when both fans and all lights are on, even with the motor a 3000rpm.
That means during the winter with wipers and defrost added, we might have a problem.
I'll try to get a more powerful one next week.

Enough for today, I need to go to work tomorrow.
_________________
86 Syncro Tintop G60
work in progress ...as always!

[bluefirefly]

Motor lid done:

Some place, there is too much foam, it is a little hard to close.

All carpets are in place, it looks better now.

We had a leak (again), a little green, it was the rear washer fluid pump leaking inside the body, above the rear fender.
It is gone now, I though it was the seal, but it is the pump.


No work today on the trans, too busy to put the full exhaust in place since I got 3 donuts yesterday:

I had to work a little on one support, doesn't clear the J pipe so I add a 1" shim and it works.
I put back the old oxygen sensor and the catalytic convertor.

I don't like it, not sure what is the problem, but the motor doesn't seem to be as "alive" as it was.
I have a flat spot between idle and 2600rpm, no that good.
It seems better when the van is really hot but still there.
Even not taking about stalling the motor at least 5 time, didn't happen before.
We went on the highway, the motor run well as long as we are above 3000rpm, not sure how it was before since I didn't push as hard.
I let go the gas pedal at 140km/h (87mph), could have go more without problem.

We took some pic out at the same time:

On the way back, I unplugged the oxygen sensor and it doesn't change anything.
I am not sure if the converter will stay for long....

I have a question in case someone could help.
If I take off the converter, should I get another pipe with a bung for the oxygen sensor or I don't need it?


Tomorrow, I am planning to take care of the trans leak, not sure if I'll plug it, but I want to make sure where it is from.
_________________
86 Syncro Tintop G60
work in progress ...as always!

[bluefirefly]

No pics today, I'll take some tomorrow

A little more done today, we replaced both handles and locks on front doors and the sliding door too. I was able to unlock them with anything flat, not good.

We bleed those brake another time to be sure (everything was taken apart so I didn't expect to be able to bleed the system perfectly the first time) and it should be good, I can put back the cluster and top togetther.
We did play with those brake again and it is getting better and better.
The only car we own that brake as good is the Miata (and there is a big brake upgrade too on this one).

We installed the aftermarket gauge, I still need to finish some electrical about it to be able to change the color of it.

Same for the radio, only back speaker for now, we are still waiting for our front door seals to finsh those doors.

There is a drawer under the left side of the middle bench, kinda heavy duty with ball-bearing slide, I had to cut a little the support of the bench for it and it fit perfectly now.

The new oxygen sensor is in place, idle a little rough so I had to raise it, it is ok but not that stable.
I'll let it in place for now, we'll see if your gas consumption is better.

Another thing about our speed, the speedo if off about 10km/h with those wheel, so the van isn't that faster after all. We did check with our hiking GPS because I was a little surprised about people tailgating us (more than usual) so I had to check.

I think I did fix the trans leak (tempory fix I am afraid), I'll need to pull the trans next spring, here if you want to know why:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5628128#5628128

Tomorrow, some inside bit will go in and I am planning to work on those skid plate, but I need to put back everything under before that.
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86 Syncro Tintop G60
work in progress ...as always!

[RGS Paul]

Run the oxygen sensor, it will make a difference. Stalling issues and a flat spot sound maybe like a timing, air flow meter, or throttle position switch adjustment issue, check those before you go chasing things too far. Also, when you put everything back together, how well did you clean the grounds on the engine and did you seal them with anything? I cleaned mine with a wire brush in the dremel, bolted everything up, then sprayed them with LPS3 to seal out moisture. Just a thought.

Looks nice, love the beautiful work you have done.

Paul
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'87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
"Simplicate, then add lightness." Colin Chapman

[bluefirefly]

[bluefirefly]

Pictures from yesterday's work.

The drawer under the left middle seal:

there will be more when the bench will be in place, may be tomorrow.

Pic of the gauge on the right side of the cluster:

again, more later with a night pic.

I was planning to work on the skid plate but apparently, I didn't remember how to put back those rail under the motor and those to protect the main shaft.
I had to take part of the exhaust system off to be able to do so, went out to get longer screws (I replaced all screws on motor support by new grade 8 bolts and forgot about the longer one....

So, it will be tomorrow, here is a shot of the SS sheet I am planning to use as skid plate to protect the motor:

_________________
86 Syncro Tintop G60
work in progress ...as always!

[bluefirefly]

Skid plate is done, not well done but done, it is only supose to protect the motor for this winter, I'll redo it next spring, so it is only a prototype, not really good looking but , cannot do much better in 2h....

Next year version wil be better and there will be less screws, I'll use the welder to do it.

Tomorrow, front door windows so we could go for a ride with out our winter clothing.....
_________________
86 Syncro Tintop G60
work in progress ...as always!

[bluefirefly]

Front door windows are on, what a job!
Compare to that, a windshield is easier and less time consuming and the advantage of a windshield, there is only 1.
Inside panels are in place with speakers, everything fits good but I need to glue the speaker's grill, all seals in the van are new so doors are a little hard to close...

Starts to look better inside but I wasn't able to put back the lower cosole because of broken tabs:

Here is the fix, got some 1/4 inch U channel and it should be good:

Here is another view of the rear of the van, you can see a bag under the bench, it is the Viar air compressor.
I need to make something to hide all the stuff under the bench but it needs doors so everything is accessible:

Some driving in the evening (end of the afternnon but days start to be really shorter, I can smell winter....):

This week, still a lot to do, I need to get heavy square steel for the hi-lift, 1 inch rod for it too and a 3/4 or 5/8 bolt to hold all of that in place.

I am planning to loose the catalytic converter too, the flat spot on the motor is too big, I'll try our big wheels this morning but I am pretty sure it will get worst. I think I checked everything on the motor, I don't see any other reason for that flat spot especially I dodn't feel it without the converter.

Something I noticed with the skid plate at the rear, the oil temp is about 8 ot 10 degrees C higher on the highway, this is a big difference, it is about 105C.
In the other hand, the motor temp was higher too but since we have windows everywhere, we almost don't use heat anymore. It will be really hot inside during the winter, I am happy with the additional rear heater.


Another note for Bosruten, I am so happy you lost:
NO SNOW ....yet, may be not for a another 2 weeks, that will let us time to finish it.
In the other hand, there is already lots in the mountains....
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86 Syncro Tintop G60
work in progress ...as always!

[RGS Paul]

Did you install an oil cooler? That will fix your high oil temp issues. Do a search and you should find some options, or just order Tencents. I put mine in the drivers side D-pillar instead of the passenger side like most people, it can be done with AC, it is just tight.

Your flat spot mid-range is still confusing me. Does it matter if you are at wide open throttle or not? Since it only started once you installed the oxygen sensor I wonder if you have a small exhaust leak, intake leak, or if the signal wire from the sensor to the brain is shorting somewhere.

Oh, and if you don't need to run the catalytic converter for emissions I'd ditch it, keep the oxygen sensor though there MUST be a reason for the flat spot. The cat hinders your top end a little, just look at the horsepower curves for the MV versus 112i DJ engines, the top end is completely different due to the lack of a catalytic converter in the DJ.

Love it.

Paul
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'87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
"Simplicate, then add lightness." Colin Chapman

[bluefirefly]

[RGS Paul]

Oh, nevermind. Your oil temps are fine, I didn't read the previous thread closely enough. I put an oil cooler on for in the summer, off-road, and to get a warranty on my engine. Your temps are fine though, I wouldn't worry about it now and would install an oil cooler next summer.

Hm… no change when you disconnect the oxygen sensor. Probably isn't the sensor itself then. Defective catalytic converter? This is odd.

Paul
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'87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
"Simplicate, then add lightness." Colin Chapman

[bosruten]

[bluefirefly]

[bluefirefly]

[bluefirefly]

Here are some pictures of what has been done this week:

May be I should try it before going out with it, in case something happens.....


After that, we did replace our skinny wheels with better one, the skinny will go to the shop to get snow tires, certainly 215-70/16.

Too bad I am lazy, otherwise, I'll take the shaft off and go for a ride like that....
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86 Syncro Tintop G60
work in progress ...as always!

[bluefirefly]

Things I am not happy about, below is an email I sent last Monday to RMW and Tencent about their exhaust, I let you decide what to think about it, I even didn't get any answer after a week!
No choice, I need to post it!
Of course, I'll post it in the RMW exhaust feedback.

""'''''''
Hi

Joe I received those exhaust donuts today, thanks a lot, I needed only one , now I have more spare and it seems I'll need them.

Since I cc'ed Chris, I start at the beginning.
So, I bought this exhaust system in June, received it shortly, took a look and I was happy, you got a comment on your website about it (I think I am the only one by the way).
End of September, time to install the exhaust, oups, 1 small donut and related screws are missing, not a big deal, those thing happen, I am not lucky.
Tried to find one in Calgary, no luck again, I contacted you 1st of October, you shipped one, took over 3 weeks, no luck again, but after 2 weeks, you gave me the ref#, I am able to get 3 (from Toronto, the only 3 in Canada!!!!...).
Of course, during that time, I made one myself and I am able to drive a little around, cannot put the catalytic converter because something isn't right, it seems the system is too long (It is possible to see on a picture of the last clamp, between muffler and exhaust tip, the muffler bigger diameter is going too far and the clamp isn't at the right place:

or maybe the J pipe cannot go inside the converter far enough or..... and I had the right bracket that was touching the secondary runner:

and bent itselft when I tighten it:

As you can see, the first time I put the exhaust system, the motor was on a support, easy access from everywhere.

Got my spares locally last week, take a look at the only small donut I put in, didn't like how it looked (after only a break'in and some driving, about 250 miles) so I put 2 new donuts on the system (the big donut was looking fine).
I wanted to put the catalytic converter to be able to plug the O2 sensor but I didn't want to cut the J pipe about 1/2" shorter so I made a 1" shim to put at the left side of the right bracket to move it to the right and now the clamp for the exhaust tip is good.
Works well for the total lengh, at the same time I bent a little more the same bracket to clear the secondary runner, perfect.

So, this is a little more work, but after restoring the whole van, this isn't a problem at all, after all, I have a full SS system, I am still happy.

Since I put the converter in place, it seems I got a flat spot on my rpm range, kinda big, from 1500 to 2600rpm, not sure what is the problem, I replace the O2 sensor with a new one, same problem. I think it is the converter (but I am not 100% sure, I rebuilt the whole motor with better parts but may be I did something wrong, not a problem at all, I am still happy.), not that a big deal, I don't really need it, no exhaust check in Alberta.
So, I am planning to replace it with a piece of SS pipe, got the bung but not SS pipe for now....

The day before, I checked the all system to be sure it is still tighten since we drove about 400 miles with it and I had to tighten both joints with small donuts, otherwise everything else was good, no leak.

I received those extra donuts from you today at work, and looking more for pipe, I got something.
Came back home with the van, still the flat spot, it seems it is getting worst, it is time to do something.
So, I took the end of the system off and there is something moving in the converter:

It is the inner ring of the 2 new donuts I just put less than 300 miles ago (I didn't take them appart, no time for that and with a SS skid plate in place, I cannot access them).
Yesterday, I checked the all system to be sure it is still tighten since we drove about 400 miles with it and I had to tighten both joints with small donuts, otherwise everything else was good, no leak.

Another look at the converter and it is damaged inside (the white mark you can see inside are about 1/4 deep), it seems those donuts parts were inside for a while:

So, it doesn't matter for the converter, I wasn't planning to use it (may be sell it, not sure) after all, I am still happy.
All the adjustment and others, bracket to be made, it doesn't matter neither, only a waste of time, it is life and when you own a Vanagon, you better be ready for it, I am still happy.
But, if in my maintenance schedule I need to plan to replace those donuts every 500 miles, I am not happy.
I was looking at the muffler input and I am not sure what will happen if that happen again, it is not that big.

Not sure if I am doing something wrong, I don't think I overtighten those, I did tighten same for all 3 but it seems the bigger diameter donut is a different material.
For the converter flat spot on my torque or HP curve, I think the motor is good, made a mark 1 inch of the "0" timing and checked it at 3000rpm like I read in Chris' post, got 1.125 rockers and GW 2.2l kit with their camshaft, new cylinder heads. Everything else if new or close to new and was running fine before the restoration.

I think I read somewhere that you had problem with those donuts and are looking for something different, not able to find it anymore.

So, at the end, I am not asking for much, only a solution for those donuts.
As you can see, this is between us, I didn't put any comment on the Samba in the thread for this system, I contact you first, it is the way it should be.

Please, keep me informed.

Regards.
Jerome
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86 Syncro Tintop G60
work in progress ...as always!

[bosruten]

Most of these vendors are not getting rich, average guys with jobs like you and me. If you ain't happy? put it back in the box, call UPS and hit the charge back button... but I would phone first before calling them out on a web forum.
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'87 Syncro Weekender

[tarandusVDub]

^X2
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1990 Syncro 16" DoppleKabine 2.1 DJ 112i
________________________
Sold: 1972 Bay Campmobile; 1984 Westy, base model, 2WD.

[bluefirefly]

[bluefirefly]

Need to comment on my exhaust mod.
I didn't want to keep the catalytic converter because it thought it was part fo the problem for my flat spot so I deleted it.
It was better but not enough.
Here is the mod, I found the same size pipe as the system so I had to replace a clamp:

Here is the bung in place about 15 degrees from vertical and the connecting pipe that will go inside the J pipe and the new pipe:

Another look at the weld, I won't take a better picture because the weld isn't that great but for my first tig weld, I cannot complain too much, it isn't going to break or go anywhere:

Here is a shot of both, the pipe is longer because it fits in the system differently:

and of course, I forgot to take a pic of the whole system in place.

So, went for a drive and it didn't change too much, the converter is close to free for gaz flow.

Need to look more so I added clamps on my new intake hoses as Hero419 suggested, at the same time I replaced all vaccum hoses, again no differences.
Checked again all rubber boots in the intake system, everything is fine, all clamps are tight.

So, I remember that when I put the converter in place the first time, I did adjust the timing.
I did checked again, I am dead on but I wanted to play a little with it so yesterday we found a good spot on the highway between 2 exits with a big valley to adjust it.
The best result is with my timing are about 3'' right from the V mark on the pulley (when Tencent recommend about 2" and close to 40 degrees, we are at 3000 feet) so there is something wrong because I might be over 50 degrees.
I guess it is my timing light, a cheap one where I can adjust the timing with a nob at the back, even at 0 timing, I get that result.
So, now I still have power on the high rev but the lower end is great too, not a TDI but night an day with that adjustment, not too much of a flat spot when I switch gear, as good as when I first drove with the motor freshly rebuilt but with those big tires, I get about 25% "longer gear".
We did try at 4" past the V but idle is really crap (cannot keep it idling too much), better low end torque and no apparent noise from the motor but I cannot let it like that, the motor doesn't seems to run right.

I guess I need to find a better timing light to check how much timing I got, as I said I am happy with it but need to know.

2 days before the timing adjustment, we went for a long drive in the moutain, did a little off road (really a little off the gravel road) and we had to keep the rev above the 3000rpm mark even in granny to keep going up.... but it will be for a later post.
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86 Syncro Tintop G60
work in progress ...as always!