1500 SP not running on 1&2

jspbtown · Samba Member Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5156

I am working on a H code 1500cc motor that doesn't seem to be firing on cylinders 1 & 2. I come to this conclusion based on the fact that after having it running for a few moments that the 1 & 2 exhaust pipes are cool, while the 3 & 4 are much warmer.

Some facts:
* Compression in 1&2 is between 140-150lbs
* Stock Vac advance distributor (overall condition unknown)
* New (el cheapo) wires that I have tested for continuity
* New plugs
* Valves adjusted correctly
* Rebuilt Pic30 carb: The idle solenoid (near the choke) is wallowed out
and loose.

It has a vacuum leak and I am hoping its the carb. Spraying fluid around intake/head connections does nothing. If I partially cover the carb throat it runs better but still is not firing on 1&2. New carb on order just because of the wallowed out solenoid.

New SVDA distributor also ordered (just cause I have no idea on the condition of the old one)

Could I be 180 degrees off?

Other suggestions?

Bill271 · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject:

Very possible on 180, also check the idle jet

andk5591 · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject:

double check your manifold is tight and sealed - I had a buddy that was chasing his tail on a similar problem and it was a loose intake on the one side......
_________________
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"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
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Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
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jspbtown · Samba Member Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5156

Its a single port stock intake. I used new metal rings. Bolts are all snug.

jspbtown · Samba Member Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5156

What are the symptoms of the dizzy being out 180 degress?

gears · Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:27 am Post subject:

We once traced this symptom to a pinhole that had developed between the manifold's main intake tube and the welded-on preheater tube ... a hidden internal leak (created by the factory weld) that had us completely stumped.

Almost Alive · Samba Member Joined: October 12, 2009 Posts: 1345

Pull your spark plug wires on 1 and 2 one at a time. Put it close to a piece of the engine tin and have someone crank it, look for the arch. If there is none, the issue is between your distributor and wires. If there isn't, the issue is either you've got an intake leak or your plugs. Pull the plugs back out and reinstall them. If you used anti seize or lube, wipe most of it off then reinstall. Double check your plug wires are on correctly as well.
Single ports are a pain in the dick when it comes to intake leaks. Those tiny studs for the manifold barely take the correct torque setting. It is VERY possible your manifold didn't tighten all the way down.

earthquake · Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:55 am Post subject:

Are the plug wires on the correct plugs? Is it backfiring through the carb?

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jspbtown · Samba Member Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5156

No back firing at all.

It starts right up, although its running rough. It starts to die but when I place my hand over the throat of the carb I can pretty much keep it going my modulating the air flow. That makes me think intake leak.

Even with that I would assume the exhaust pipes on that side would get warm at least. They don't. Its clearly not firing on the right side.

I have had the plugs out twice. Once to see if they looked sooted up (they were spotless) and once to check for compression. There is some anti-seize on them but not alot. Plugs are brand new and gapped correctly

The plug wires are on correctly according to my book (1 toward front of engine, 2 toward read of engine)

Almost Alive · Samba Member Joined: October 12, 2009 Posts: 1345

jspbtown · Samba Member Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5156

OK...some further info.

I took each right side plug wire off and had a very good spark. The motor did not change in sound.

I then took out both right sided plugs and wiped them clean. No difference.

I then made sure #1 was on the compression stroke and made sure my dizzy was pointing to #1

I then took a left sided plug and swapped it to the right side. Started the engine. Left side got real warm....right side stayed cool to the touch.

I also verified compression in both right side cylinders. Just under 150lbs in each. I also removed the right sided valve cover and rotated the engine by hand and made sure all the valves were opening and closing. I also checked the clearances too...0.006.

I then took an old Bosch plug out of a spare motor...put it in #1 and tried it. The exhaust got a little warm. The motor then died out and now won't restart.

I think I am not getting a spark. I used a test light on the secondary side of the coil and when I rotate the motor by hand the light lights and goes off. I have 12v at the coil. Since I had no help all I could do was take the coil wire off and put it near a ground. I had done that earlier and could hear the arc. Now I cannot. The engine always fired right up but ran poorly. Now it won't run.

So.....I know I have a vacuum leak. A new carb will be here wed. I have a new SVDA dizzy coming as well.

But...could my plugs be wrong? Why would they fire on one side and not the other?

Could I have fried my coil?

I am stumped.

mark tucker · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:42 pm Post subject:

but is the #1 plug wire still going to the #2 cylinder??are the plug wires any good? is the intake gasket blown?does a cheezzee burger have chezzee on the burger or on the bun??is the intake boot leaking or torn?

Jody '71 · Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:27 am Post subject:

What model distributor is on there now? For Beetle applications with 1500SP, the 205K was used which is vac advance only, with the later model German Solex 30-1 with the power fuel jet.
Did your coil get hot? Have you tried replacing the condensor? I hope when you replaced the crush manifold gaskets you made sure to get the old ones out. Triple check orientation of your plug wires.
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andk5591 · Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:40 am Post subject:

Taking a stab - would not a bad condensor cause something like this?
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

jspbtown · Samba Member Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5156

"but is the #1 plug wire still going to the #2 cylinder??"

When the #1 cylinder (right side nearest the flywheel) is on the compression stroke (verifide by looking at the valves and having my compression tester hose screwed in and feeling the air come out and having the timing mark line up) the rotor is facing the #1 spot on the cap. That wire goes from that spot on the cap to the right side cylinder closest to the flywheel.

"are the plug wires any good?"

Plug wires are cheapos but when I pulled the spark plug wires off of 1 & 2 while the engine was running I got a very strong arcing spark. They both have continuity.

"is the intake gasket blown?"

New metal ring gaskets.

"is the intake boot leaking or torn?"

ahhh....single port.

"What model distributor is on there now? For Beetle applications with 1500SP, the 205K was used which is vac advance only, with the later model German Solex 30-1 with the power fuel jet."

I started with an unknown 009 and swapped out a stock VW vacuum unit from another 1500 single port. I don't know the number on it.

"Did your coil get hot?"

Coil did get hot when first running it. Although yesterday I noted it really didn't get that hot before everything crapped out.

"I hope when you replaced the crush manifold gaskets you made sure to get the old ones out. "

Absolutely took the old ones out. engine was on a stand and heads were taken off, cleaned, inspected, etc. No possible way and gasket remained.

"Have you tried replacing the condensor?"

Have not replaced the condensor. It was in the spare dizzy I swapped in. Would a bad condensor still allow the grounding function of the points to work? What I am asking is when I hook up the test light to both sides of the coil the test light lights and goes off as I hand rotate the engine

andk5591 · Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:38 pm Post subject:

Dont know if when you swapped distributors was the same condensor used - its a fast and easy test - also if you have access to a coil that would be a good and fast test. You need to narrow down your potential causes. Its like when you cant figure it out - just do something - but just do one thing at a time.

I have not run into this myself and the only thing that was close was a buddy with a DP that had a loose intake manifold.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

Bill271 · Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject:

Pull the 3/4 plug wires and then start trying to get it to run


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