Another 2110 build *Head Advise Needed*

carlostam · Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:39 pm Post subject:

Well, Here's the rockers. Have them mocked up on the bench just to see how they fit.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

First thing I notice was that the base is set back. Its not centered at all. Is this normal for the Scat 1.4 Pro Comps??? Confused

See how it over hangs.....

_________________
82 x AA 90.5 B c/w ,FK8 ,1.4 Scat pro comp rockers
CB lifters,5.4 connecting rods, 12 lb flywheel
Stock cam gear ,1 5/8 merged headers ,Dual 40 weber 36 ventury,Kennedy pressure plate stage 1
Stock 66 trans with 205/65/15 tires ,010 distributor
Bad Ass Ported 40x35.5 heads Dual Springs
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...;start=220

modok · Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:18 am Post subject:

honestly, it would be ironic if it scat rockers DID fit china heads perfectly,
that'd be like a solar eclipse man!

The rocker bosses look slightly too high, maybe a bit of core shift in the head casting, annoying, but it should still be strong enough to work

The scat rocker blocks are off-set like that, that is normal

rockers look like they would maybe hit valve covers, check it without the gasket to find out

fredy a · Samba Member Joined: January 17, 2005 Posts: 223

have do your lash caps fit ?
de one that came weed my scat lifters 1.4
is to big
thanks
_________________
sorry for the spelling

carlostam · Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:10 am Post subject:

mark tucker · Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:24 am Post subject:

slight play is good,and the rockers have to be offset to get the ratio to work within the vw head size.and the china rocker blocks are slightly different than the vw, the scat heads I had hear last week had them a bit lower in the box,or atleast the stud was and the block was smaller& narrower.I think it is mainly smaller, dont think it will have any affect, have you seen the size of the shims thay sell?there smaller than that witch would be worse than what you have.I dont use any shims,never seen anyset up that needed them to work properly,just seen them used when the pushrods are a bit too long.witch is rong. look at the top ridge of the rocker arms thet look jagged, might want to deburr a bit.
as far as the head hiting the copper gasket as long as the gasket is biger than the bore and fits the head bore good I would not worry as the top of the pistons are smaller any way for expansion.I ran .060 gaskets that the pistons came threw +another .020", why you ask? to get the quench I wanted & I did not at that time have a head flycutter& the cylinder shims I had gotten from a vender in cali ,well that looked lik they were cut out with a can opener and serfaced with a body grinder.with that said they were within +-.012" of each other.I just wish I could remember who it was I got them from,too long ago.I ran the shit out of that motor for about 6 years then went biger, again.

mark tucker · Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:26 am Post subject:

just noticed ,you need to get some longer chromoly rocker studs,and get probably rid of those shims.

modok · Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:36 pm Post subject:

Some lash caps are a tight fit and some are not. Quality varies, look at he surface finish inside the lash cap and try to get an idea of how loose it is, should be tight to .002 play, any looser than that indicates crappyness for sure
the valve stem should be about .313"

Scat rockers do seem to be well made, but they don't fit very well sometimes, for some reason.

In all cases of these aftermarket parts, I hate to say, you just need to really investigate everything and do the best you can to make it all work together.
Comparison with stock parts and known specifications can show you what part is funky. These china heads are new enough that I have no idea what dimensions they changed, but it sure looks like they did change something.

carlostam · Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:42 pm Post subject:

Alright all, just started placing my bad ass heads on the engine and played around with the rockers. I placed old 1600 springs on the head. They were soft, hell I was even able to push them down by hand. It worked out just fine. I will be posting pics soon.

So be ready for me I'll be asking plenty of questions concerning this geometry stuff.
_________________
82 x AA 90.5 B c/w ,FK8 ,1.4 Scat pro comp rockers
CB lifters,5.4 connecting rods, 12 lb flywheel
Stock cam gear ,1 5/8 merged headers ,Dual 40 weber 36 ventury,Kennedy pressure plate stage 1
Stock 66 trans with 205/65/15 tires ,010 distributor
Bad Ass Ported 40x35.5 heads Dual Springs
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...;start=220

VIN · Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:50 pm Post subject:

_________________
Co-owner, 2 Brothers Guns
[email protected]

Click to view image

carlostam · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:06 pm Post subject:

Need info on this.....

after what I though was the correct deck height of .050 on #1 and #2 was off. I have ordered the proper shims in order to get .050 deck.

My question is #3 and #4 have the correct .050 deck height can I start with the valve geometry on that side while I wait for the shims???

Also, what is the best way to start with the pro comps scat 1.4 rockers. Been reading tons of threads going back to 2007 but seem that scat has changed.

Some threads say just measure one rocker for push rod length while other say do each one individually. Confused

Some say that the FK8 lobes are different for each valve?? Some say that the scat rocker tend be more like a 1.5 ratio and it goes on and on. I know I know its the samba .

I would really like to get some help on how to start this. I'm a fast learner but sometimes just need that little push.

Thanks
Carlos
_________________
82 x AA 90.5 B c/w ,FK8 ,1.4 Scat pro comp rockers
CB lifters,5.4 connecting rods, 12 lb flywheel
Stock cam gear ,1 5/8 merged headers ,Dual 40 weber 36 ventury,Kennedy pressure plate stage 1
Stock 66 trans with 205/65/15 tires ,010 distributor
Bad Ass Ported 40x35.5 heads Dual Springs
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...;start=220

carlostam · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject:

Today I cut the push rods after getting the swipe on the lash cap correct. I had to use .090 shims on the base in order to get the swipe right.

Now here's the questions.... I measured full lift and its withing .005 of what the cam card indicated. My problem now is that at half lift the rocker is at an angle compared to the push rod. I have read and read that the push rod and the rocker adjuster needs to be straight with each other.

How do I fix this. I have been reading but can't seem to get the answer.

Need Help please. Modok are you out there Wink

All swipes are even:

Bad picture but swipe is in the middle and centered:

Full lift:

_________________
82 x AA 90.5 B c/w ,FK8 ,1.4 Scat pro comp rockers
CB lifters,5.4 connecting rods, 12 lb flywheel
Stock cam gear ,1 5/8 merged headers ,Dual 40 weber 36 ventury,Kennedy pressure plate stage 1
Stock 66 trans with 205/65/15 tires ,010 distributor
Bad Ass Ported 40x35.5 heads Dual Springs
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...;start=220

modok · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:56 pm Post subject:

THe angle on the pushrod side does like a bit much

How does it all look if you go without shims under the rockers?

carlostam · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:07 pm Post subject:

mark tucker · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject:

the closer to being in line at full lift the better in most cases.(where is the most pressure on everything??? full max lift) different rockers have different radi on the foot and that can & will change the ratio and how the geo can be set up.
with your pattern is the foot pulling/pushing on the stem and staying in 1 spot due to the stem bending?or is it sliding?walking?I have seen rolle rockers bend the valve stem .030 instead of rolling across them,most rollers dont roll but slide&roll when running.I dfl coat my lash caps&rockers to try to keep oil there and have them slide/walk instead of pulling/pushing,grabing
with the rockers high you may just have them pulling instead of walking across the face, just check it for your self and do some thinken,it,s not hard.thats where adjustable pushrod comes in handy to see what hapens at a bunch of different hights.you can also check the degrees of the cam at the valve .and watch it change as you move the rocker up&down, most of the time down will make more power as the raito go's up at lower lifts with lower pushrod seat, witch = more power.

modok · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:27 pm Post subject:

Honestly, the most important part, IMO, is the angle of valve to rocker

In this picture here, the angle of the red lines is near 90 degrees. This 90degree point should be at 1/3- 1/2 lift, to make for minimal side force on the valve stems.
SO, for me, getting this close would be step #1, this can be changed by changing stem height, lash caps, or shims under the rockers
Then, I'd worry about the contact of the foot being centered
Then, I'd look at what the pushrod is doing

The common belief assumes that if the contact patch and the way the adjuster looks is right, the angles will be right. Hopefully this assumption is correct, but it is not always. For instance in the picture the contact point is way off, for some reason.
I assume nothing.

mark tucker · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject:

not for me.
back on the copper shims/gaskets, why would the piston hit them? and why is your cylinder hanging out of the head?how is the cylinder hanging out of the head??

as for the min side force , would you rather have it farther off at low lift when there is less pressure and more likely the rocker foot will slide with low pressure than when the pressuere is high at 1/2to 2/3 to full lift?where it wont slide but will bend the stem& kill the guide. why not?done it for years,t&d & jessel sets thiers up about the same, they even have special tools to set it up corectly & how much to compecsate for lower lift cams & extreamly high lift cams.not to worry everybody does this stuff differently.

modok · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject:

jezel rockers are roller rockers
you see any rollers here?

these are wiper foot type rockers
the differnt designs are not the same

On valve side--
ball adjuster: 90 at half lift
wiper: 90 at 1/3 lift
roller rocker.... I donno, who cares, they are too heavy anyway Wink

mark tucker · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:46 pm Post subject:

havent you seen the mohawk ? some are non roller. and the roller makes no diff on geo.

modok · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject:

I though the same thing too, before I ever though about it, but then I started thinking, and looking at how the rockers are designed on all the heads that came in over the last few years.

If you have an example of a production rocker that is not designed as I describe, tell me what it is, and I will have a look at next chance


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