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Micropassatman
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2006
Posts: 472
Location: Chico, CA
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 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject: Reliable pressure plates for a bus? |
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Just had my SECOND SACHS Brazilian PP FAIL on me today. This is my work vehicle and I can't have this unreliable SHIT in my bus anymore. Any ideas in terms of what might be the MOST reliable plate out there right now for a bus? KEP? LUK?
I need this baby R&R'ed by Monday and could use your help. Please! |
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Inane Cathode
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Joined: September 11, 2009
Posts: 556
Location: Westminster, CO
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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KEP is who i chose for my pressure plate (stage II) (along with the KEP gold friction disk). It's held up just fine with 140 some odd hp the ej22 puts out, so im sure it's ok with the lawnmower you've got (j/k).
Only had one clutch cable break, and it was worn through at the clutch pedal (and also was as ancient as the rest of the bus i'm sure). Clutch feel is just fine.
<edit> Although now that i think about it i'm pretty sure i've actually got a 200mm pressure plate and clutch disk. so thats not really that helpful :/
Last edited by Inane Cathode on Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Desertbusman
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Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 14655
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Why did it fail?
I've never had any problems with them. Got a picture of it? And you might tell us what year. Which T/O bearing system?
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Micropassatman
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Joined: January 27, 2006
Posts: 472
Location: Chico, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| A few of the 'fingers' on the release mechanism just 'weaken'. It works but it feels like shit. Eventually it won't work at all. It's a '70 S/P 1600 with an 091 in it. Sleeved T/O bearing w/o collar on P/P - 200mm('71 bus or any late beetle). |
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Micropassatman
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Joined: January 27, 2006
Posts: 472
Location: Chico, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| My local vendor has an EMPI knockoff of Kennedy's 1700lb plate for $99. Worth the risk? I'd rather have a 3-fingered plate at this point. |
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Micropassatman wrote: |
| A few of the 'fingers' on the release mechanism just 'weaken'. It works but it feels like shit. Eventually it won't work at all. It's a '70 S/P 1600 with an 091 in it. Sleeved T/O bearing w/o collar on P/P - 200mm('71 bus or any late beetle). |
You have an 002 Bellhousing on it? What type disk?
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Micropassatman
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Joined: January 27, 2006
Posts: 472
Location: Chico, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Regular Sachs sprung 200mm disc. |
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Micropassatman
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Joined: January 27, 2006
Posts: 472
Location: Chico, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Let me clarify:I drive delivering parcels in my bus for 8 hours a day. I need a plate that can be sprung/unsprung 1000 times a day and remain reliable. Clamping force isn't the issue here. |
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Micropassatman wrote: |
| Let me clarify:I drive delivering parcels in my bus for 8 hours a day. I need a plate that can be sprung/unsprung 1000 times a day and remain reliable. Clamping force isn't the issue here. |
Wow. You might want to call FAT Performance as they show a German made F&S (Fichtel & Sachs) 200 mm diaphragm style in their catalog. Everywhere else showed Brazil. If they work you might stockpile a couple cause that is a lot of driving in a bus and it will tear up a clutch using it heavy duty like that. Stay away from anything unsprung or racing.
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Micropassatman
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Location: Chico, CA
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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I had a similar 3 finger on my Jeep and it didn't last a long time HOWEVER if you can get a gauge block to set the finger height it is adjustable and you can get the height back. The drawback on a 3-finger is that they have more vibration in my experience.
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Micropassatman
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Joined: January 27, 2006
Posts: 472
Location: Chico, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Vibration? At speed or during engagement? Anybody else have experience with the 3-fingered plates? |
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Micropassatman wrote: |
| Vibration? At speed or during engagement? Anybody else have experience with the 3-fingered plates? |
engagement. If one finger gets a tiny bit softer or wears more, the TO will rock as the pressure plate spins. It is less likely on a spring diaphragm. That is why three finger plates are adjustable. There is a gauge block tool where one uses the gauge block to measure the finger height above the flywheel so all three fingers are the same as the pivots wear and the springs get some miles.
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
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Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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one thing you might consider, is maintenance. As a clutch wears it tightens up. That removes freeplay. It also causes the diaphragm to be pushed in further each time you step on the clutch. Bowden tube bend also affects that. if you are over centering the clutch and pushing it in too far the diaphragms will wear out sooner. Also the clevis pin and parts can wear and give the illusion of freeplay when actually there is less than design. I relegiously maintain my clutch at 5/8 - 3/4 inch freeplay. That will help the clutch diaphragms last longer. At stop lights put it in neutral. On the freeway when stopped put it in neutral or move slow in 1st. That will also protect the engine thrust bearings.
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Micropassatman
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Joined: January 27, 2006
Posts: 472
Location: Chico, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I also am religious about clutch maintenance. 3/4" freeplay, just replaced the clevis-pin and cable. |
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Micropassatman wrote: |
| I also am religious about clutch maintenance. 3/4" freeplay, just replaced the clevis-pin and cable. |
I think you are up against 1000 pushes a day. If you can get a German steel diaphragm that would be your best bet. I agree that it is the number of cycles that is wearing it out and not abuse or load. Metal only flexes so many times before it wears out. I used to drive a stick shift 71 bus, 73 fiat and 82 jeep cj7 in LA stop and go traffic. Only once did a pressure plate break or crack and that was a Borg and Beck diaphragm on the jeep at 80,000 miles. Usually they get weak or glazed. I would think maybe you could expect 30,000 - 40,000 miles between pressure plate replacements at 1000 pushes a day (2 yrs x 15,000 - 20,000 miles a year). Normally a disk would last me 40,000 to 50,000 in LA traffic and the pressure plate was good for two disks. I am doing this from memory but I do remember replacing them many times in the 300,000+ I owned each of those cars. I think the bus had 370,000 on it and the jeep 410,000 when I sold them. The fiat was only about 140,000.
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Hoody
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Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 1948
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Once again as predicted the market did not bare the cost of Original German. Find an original German one. PM me with the specifics. |
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josh
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Joined: July 13, 2003
Posts: 1773
Location: laid back in the tall grass
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:59 am Post subject: |
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I'd probably go for a good used or NOS german pressure plate or a KEP plate if they are still american made.
I delivered pizzas from a bus for several years in the '90s. didn't have any clutch problems.
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...If If stoner A takes a hit and then stoner B goes right away(not waiting two seconds), he's trying to suck on it while it's still got a vaccum, doesen't get much of a hit at all! Cause it hasn't filled back up all the way yet.
Stoner A is cylinders #2/4 B is #1/3 The plugged bowl is the throttle, the bong is the manifold |
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DakDak67
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Joined: September 25, 2011
Posts: 60
Location: Brisbane , Aussie land
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| Yeh, i'm using a Kennedy stage 1 with a gutsy 2276.. no issues. |
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jtauxe
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Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5780
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| On the freeway when stopped ... |
I guess that's a Big City problem. 
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