Author |
Message |
EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69733 Location: Phoenix Metro
|
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ok, let's get back on topic please.
What he posted is ok.
It's ok to post a link to something as long as it related to the discussion at hand. It's better to use the PM function if you have something for sale** but if it relates to something everyone would know about it, it's fine.
** This really applies more to used parts. _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
disneymike Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2009 Posts: 147 Location: Elk Grove, Ca
|
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
jason_hamilton wrote: |
<gets popcorn> |
Extra butter please...... _________________ 1958 beetle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sgmalt46 Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2005 Posts: 1293 Location: south san francisco
|
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
just to compare. a 68 i had years ago hooked sweet with a big sway bar in the front and rear and a camber compensator. you could get it to tail out if you had the power. i did with a 2275. stayed flat in the turns. i unhooked the sway bar and the car had some body roll but the car would not tail out easy. it will handle better with a sway bar to a point. go over that point and you got problems! but you really have to be doing some thing stupid. add a camber compensator and your good. i hate body roll so i used both worked great for me. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lets be careful here a camber compensator ( type with straps over axle tube) and a anti sway bar (stabilizer bar) are two different animals and react somewhat differently...
Also a front sway bar will have a great amount of influence what rear of car will do and visa-versa a rear sway bar will have some effect on front for under/over steer....
Reference material: Chassis Engineering by Herb Adams, HP Books (chapters 3 and 8).
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GS guy Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2007 Posts: 967 Location: Maryland
|
Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
One description I read in my research describes the swingaxle sway bar as trying to keep the chassis level (in turns), but in the process it tries to lower the outer wheel to match the inner, which in a swingaxle promotes more axle tuck/positive camber. Now tap the brakes raising the rear even more - and watch out!
I like the action of the Z bar much better, as it simply tries to keep both axles in a straight line (like a solid axle) regardless of body/chassis roll, thus keeping both tires square to the road. The ZRS takes this idea further and is the ultimate swingaxle suspension design. I gather the camber compensator is similar in operation to the Z bar, but maybe not quite as effective. My Deserter GS had a 3/4" Z bar - for a 1200lb car!
All that aside, in my case I'm not interested in using this bar in the rear of a swingaxle car. Just looking for a 3/4" bar with the same general shape (~45 degree ends) as shown in the EMPI bar sketch with a middle and end to end length that matches my chassis/suspension. _________________ 70's vintage Deserter GS buggy - undergoing transformation to Super GS! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
marekv8 Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 276 Location: Louisiana
|
Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Whiteline bar (purchased from John in 2006) is pictured in the middle of this shot, nothing 45˚ about it. I'm still running the rear bar, although I've swapped the front bar pictured for a unit sized to match the Whiteline rear-- with better results. The drive is basically as you describe and exactly like my old 911 Turbo -- sticks like glue as long as the throttle is buried. Back off for a second and it's gone.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
mike karp Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2011 Posts: 9 Location: Everett, WA
|
Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
I, like a few other posters have a heavier duty front sway bar and the rear sway bar. I have been quite happy with it. To be honest I have been collecting original parts for a z-bar as the theory behind it sounds better, but handling with the sway bar is soooooo much better than with nothing. It was pretty easy to install as well. IMHO it is an upgrade to stock, but one could do better.
Mike |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mike karp Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2011 Posts: 9 Location: Everett, WA
|
Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
I, like a few other posters have a heavier duty front sway bar and the rear sway bar. I have been quite happy with it. To be honest I have been collecting original parts for a z-bar as the theory behind it sounds better, but handling with the sway bar is soooooo much better than with nothing. It was pretty easy to install as well. IMHO it is an upgrade to stock, but one could do better.
Mike |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GS guy Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2007 Posts: 967 Location: Maryland
|
Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks a ton for your pics and comments Mike. That's a nice looking build!
Also, as I was afraid of, the Whiteline rear bar is the wrong configuration for what I have in mind. It looks a whole lot like the IRS rear bar. I do like the adjustability feature in the drop-link mounts.
I tried searching Whitelines web site for VW bars - they dont' even list any air cooled stuff that I could find!
The search continues....
Thanks again,
Jeff _________________ 70's vintage Deserter GS buggy - undergoing transformation to Super GS! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Teeroy Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2003 Posts: 3682 Location: Eastern WA
|
Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject: Swingaxle Sway Bar |
|
|
Factory Z bar is more of a overload spring than a sway bar. They installed them because the factory put smaller torsion bars in the 67 beetles than 66 and earlier.
By the way do not run both a camber compensator and a sway bar at the same time. _________________ Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org |
|
Back to top |
|
|
AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8498 Location: PNW
|
Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I use a HD empi front sway bar and the rear sway bar that was pictured in the Cip1 link.
Originally I used a urethane type camber compensator in the rear but did not like the preload it had on the suspension. That CC is now on my bus and does a much better job there than on the bug.
The rear sway bar works better than expected and when I know I am doing some "spirited" mountain road driving I put on some limiting straps for more control.
The only thing I would change with the empi rear is to get some of the black graphite impregnated urethane bushings as the rubber ones that come in the kit wear quickly.
empi does have a lot of crap parts but their sway bars are pretty good for the money. I also put a HD one on the front of my bus and the handling is like night and day, well worth the $80! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GS guy Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2007 Posts: 967 Location: Maryland
|
Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
derluftwagen,
Would you be willing to get under your bug and measure your rear bar - per the diagram I posted on page 1? I can calculate the angles if I could just get the straight lengths.
I'd super appreciate it! _________________ 70's vintage Deserter GS buggy - undergoing transformation to Super GS! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JeeWee Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2011 Posts: 120 Location: Garijp, the Netherlands
|
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Swingaxle Sway Bar |
|
|
long time no post in this topic, but does anyone might have a whiteline BWR11 for sale? Would like to have one fitted to my 57 swingaxle... not a big fan of the EMPI stuff, that's why I would like to go for whiteline. But they are not made anymore, out of stock.
Or someone who knows where to get another good solution. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
|
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Swingaxle Sway Bar |
|
|
I've made brackets and used a 944 rear bar. It has the same (almost) bends as the old whiteline bar, so you can tuck it under the torsion bar. I made links that looked like the whiteline links, they fastened to holes drilled in the spring plate. The 944 rear bars were available in several different thicknesses, I think mine was 14mm. Coupled with a 17mm front bar the handling was very tight and predictable. I've been meaning to put it back on my 62 but haven't gotten to it _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tbirdusa Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2006 Posts: 1460 Location: Kansas City, MO
|
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Swingaxle Sway Bar |
|
|
Having put my car in a ditch last year by getting out of the power at the wrong time, I pondered these rear bars. Since I had an hour wait, I pondered the front as well.
Are there standard sizes being built for narrowed axles as well as narrowed front. Ends.? My rear is 4" and rpfront is squeezed 6"
All pics I see appear stock sizes. _________________ Royals 2015 World Champions
Chiefs 2017 Superbowl winner
1986 Falco records Rock Me Amadeus! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JeeWee Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2011 Posts: 120 Location: Garijp, the Netherlands
|
Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 11:34 pm Post subject: Re: Swingaxle Sway Bar |
|
|
ah cool I like the idea of the 944. I already had the idea to try fit the one I currently have fitted to my wife's Lupo, I have fitted a whiteline rear sway bar but the bends look quite different then a BWR11.
so I will go forward with the 944 idea, thanks!
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|