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vaughn bros.
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Joined: October 13, 2003
Posts: 2395
Location: Hickory, NC
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 Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject: Your Ackermann Tricks Cures Set-Ups Specs and STEERING Pics |
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Show off your steering problems and fixes.
I would like to see your Steering Setup. Drag Cars have it made because they can do anything they want.
But how about a Type 1(2,3,4), lowered, narrowed, dropped spindles and disc, then the fancy wheels. I saw a tube of a guy that had to back up and pull forward 7 times to turn around in what looked like a 40' area.
It would be nice if you have pictures.
Last edited by vaughn bros. on Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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vaughn bros.
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Joined: October 13, 2003
Posts: 2395
Location: Hickory, NC
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Angle of the Beam (type 1)
VW668 tool, looks like it would be easy to make.
Just one of the many Ackermann variables.
Last edited by vaughn bros. on Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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vaughn bros.
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Joined: October 13, 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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vaughn bros.
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Joined: October 13, 2003
Posts: 2395
Location: Hickory, NC
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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I know Jer*Fab has swam these waters.  |
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Hugo Stiglitz
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Joined: August 07, 2009
Posts: 782
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Depending on the how level your car is, you would need caster shims (Whether you were narrowed or not)
To fix bump steer, you would need to do a tie rod flip. Again, this depends on how low you would be in the front.
To fix ackermann (not that it fixes it correctly) and also help with turning radius, a few guys run an altered pitman arm.
Old Speed used to sell them here on the Samba...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=711188
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vaughn bros.
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Joined: October 13, 2003
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Location: Hickory, NC
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:54 am Post subject: |
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Which type do you have for best results? Any other styles? These are lowered, dropped spindled, catered, 4" narrowed Tie Rod configs. Not to scale. Showing a FRONT VIEW of a common LP, Early Tank, 5-Lug Bug.
Last edited by vaughn bros. on Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vaughn bros.
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Joined: October 13, 2003
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Location: Hickory, NC
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Any modified Steering Arms?
Ackermann is a Bitch 
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vaughn bros.
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Joined: October 13, 2003
Posts: 2395
Location: Hickory, NC
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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A Steering Arm Extension could eliminate altering an original steering arm. Also could incorporate multiple choice mounting options for tie rods. Just a thought.
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Trayle D. the real oggfk
Samba Fabricator
Joined: March 24, 2002
Posts: 1511
Location: Phoenix...... GFK all day every day
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thats called a quick steer. It is used for offroad cars to quicken up the throw of the steering linkage(thus the name). Weve been using them on street cars for about 15 years now. Empi makes them and you can find them at your local VW shop. Its really not needed until you narrow your beam more than 3 inches. It not only brings the linkage back to its stock geometry, but like anything, has another affect as well. It stiffens up the steering a bit. Its like swinging a short piece of wood and then swining a long piece of wood. The longer one is harder to swing. What Ive found with suspension is no matter what you do, when you modify from stock you creat another obsticle that must be overcome. Its give and take.
Something else people miss when building a front suspension. They forget to center the steering box. Just throwing your tierods on and setting the toe isnt enough. You need to find the center of the worm gear and make sure you keep it centered when install the steering linkage and do you alignment.
There are allot of things to consider and make sure to do right when building a suspension. SAI is important also. Camber really affects your SAI(steering axis inclination). If you dont understand how it effects the handling of your car, its really hard to fix it. Theres a reason race cars set their camber and caster the way they do. Do some research.
Negative caster can cause your car to wonder around when its going in a straight line. So its important to use caster shims when your car is raked forward. how much depends on how much your car is raked.
This is a great subject and there are lots of people to take advise from on here. Do some research on the web and make sure to do it right. Its not only your life you are taking into your hands, as soon as you jump behind the wheel you have all of ours in your hands...
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the original
. . . . . . .GERMAN FOLKS 602
"The Downest, Deepest, & Dopest"
Trayle Duncan
AKA: The Troll that lives under that samba
AKA: The Samba Fabricator
Stay'n sucka free for the 0000000000... Hell, from now on... |
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vaughn bros.
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2003
Posts: 2395
Location: Hickory, NC
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Trayle D. the real oggfk wrote: |
Thats called a quick steer. It is used for offroad cars to quicken up the throw of the steering linkage(thus the name). Weve been using them on street cars for about 15 years now. Empi makes them and you can find them at your local VW shop. Its really not needed until you narrow your beam more than 3 inches. It not only brings the linkage back to its stock geometry, but like anything, has another affect as well. It stiffens up the steering a bit. Its like swinging a short piece of wood and then swining a long piece of wood. The longer one is harder to swing. What Ive found with suspension is no matter what you do, when you modify from stock you creat another obsticle that must be overcome. Its give and take.
Something else people miss when building a front suspension. They forget to center the steering box. Just throwing your tierods on and setting the toe isnt enough. You need to find the center of the worm gear and make sure you keep it centered when install the steering linkage and do you alignment.
There are allot of things to consider and make sure to do right when building a suspension. SAI is important also. Camber really affects your SAI(steering axis inclination). If you dont understand how it effects the handling of your car, its really hard to fix it. Theres a reason race cars set their camber and caster the way they do. Do some research.
Negative caster can cause your car to wonder around when its going in a straight line. So its important to use caster shims when your car is raked forward. how much depends on how much your car is raked.
This is a great subject and there are lots of people to take advise from on here. Do some research on the web and make sure to do it right. Its not only your life you are taking into your hands, as soon as you jump behind the wheel you have all of ours in your hands... |
Yeah those quik steers have been around for some time. I was sorta thinking of a redesign just for 4 to 5 inch narrow jobs. Not that I can come up with a perfect cure but just to stir shit up a bit.
I couldnt make the above drawing 3D so here is a quick sketch.
I also do not think anyone has spent much time modifying a gas tank rather than notching a frame for tie rods. Thanks man.
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vaughn bros.
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Joined: October 13, 2003
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Location: Hickory, NC
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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Even a finned aluminum cover. 
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Trayle D. the real oggfk
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Joined: March 24, 2002
Posts: 1511
Location: Phoenix...... GFK all day every day
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Flipping the tierod from top to bottom on the spindles will cure the gas tank problem. Although the long tierod then gets really close to the tunnel and the stock fule line where it comes out of the pan horn. Again, all give and take. You have to give up a little to get the look unless you are planning on doing some real modifying.
Recessing the pitman arm into the quick steer is actually a very good idea. That would raise the tierod up away from the fule line another inch once you flip the tierod.
_________________
the original
. . . . . . .GERMAN FOLKS 602
"The Downest, Deepest, & Dopest"
Trayle Duncan
AKA: The Troll that lives under that samba
AKA: The Samba Fabricator
Stay'n sucka free for the 0000000000... Hell, from now on... |
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vaughn bros.
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2003
Posts: 2395
Location: Hickory, NC
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Alternative Steering stops, , , , anybody?
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vaughn bros.
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Joined: October 13, 2003
Posts: 2395
Location: Hickory, NC
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Legal Disclaimers, Off Road,Works for 4.5" Narrowed LP Beams, Dangerous, One Full Turn Disappears, Works for Auto-Cross, etc, all good starts to argue about.
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