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Busryder Samba SuperHero
Joined: September 17, 2007 Posts: 1663 Location: In Your Face...
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:34 pm Post subject: Transmission Failure **Solved!** |
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As the title suggests, I had a transmission failure last night...
It just 'popped' while in reverse during a three point turn. "POP".... then a slow grinding sound that was unaffected with the clutch pressed down. I had all four spots in the shift pattern, just no effect at the wheels.
I towed it the three blocks to my sister's house this morning and there was a noticeable growl in neutral the whole way... I'm doing the work where it sits now, at her place.
This is how I started this morning:
Ass in the air and the bumper removed:
The trans ready to remove:
I am stuck at the 27mm cradle bolts... I need to barrow a socket. (Thanks Burt!) Then the only thing left before removal is the brake lines...
I'm headed back over there now... anyone care to hazard a guess as to what the nature of the failure is?
My guess is the big "C" clip that retains the axle at the diff... I am keeping track of this issue, and the ultimate solution, as I fix this before the Madera show on the 29th of this month.
Stay tuned!
EDIT: **SOLVED!**[/GVideo] _________________
Lind wrote: |
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time. |
I am a Dick, hear me roar-
Me, an OVP Lifer...
Last edited by Busryder on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Terry Gaudet Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2004 Posts: 399 Location: New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Stripped rear brake drum? _________________ Terry Gaudet
1950 Beetle Standard
1955 Canadian Custom
1956 Kombi w/SO23 kit
1965 Kombi walkthrough
1965 Double Cab |
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Busryder Samba SuperHero
Joined: September 17, 2007 Posts: 1663 Location: In Your Face...
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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I did think of that Terry, I checked BEFORE I pulled the trans, but....
Nope... both drums are fine, with nice tight splines.
Pullin' axles now... hoping is IS just that big "C" clip, snap ring... keeping my fingers crossed guys.
_________________
Lind wrote: |
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time. |
I am a Dick, hear me roar-
Me, an OVP Lifer... |
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Busryder Samba SuperHero
Joined: September 17, 2007 Posts: 1663 Location: In Your Face...
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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I found it.... WHY do you think this happened?
Opinions are highly valued... but please remember that this is straight 'budget' work.
Thanks for following this today.... _________________
Lind wrote: |
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time. |
I am a Dick, hear me roar-
Me, an OVP Lifer... |
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Campy Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2005 Posts: 4933 Location: Chico, CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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When you removed the cover that goes against the "daisy" and the bell end of the axle tube, the axle, snap ring, and thrust washer came out of the side gear? I've installed many snap rings in a side case over the side gear and thrust washer, and they did not always go all of the way into the groove in the case. Maybe your snapring was never all of the way in the groove. I had to mess around with mine, sometimes, and even use a large flat screwdriver to poke them in the groove. I hope that that section of the case did not break.
It looks like the outside of the bell end of the axle tube has been scoured. How is the daisy and cover that goes over it? Remember to remove the side gear and inspect it for cracks on the outside and wear oh the inside, and wear on the two fulcrum plates and the shovel end of the axle.
I hope that you removed the brake drum before removing the transaxle. _________________ Don't worry; be happy. (Baba) |
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WideFive SBS Hit Squad
Joined: August 20, 2002 Posts: 1147 Location: Litchfield, Ohio
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Campy wrote: |
I've installed many snap rings in a side case over the side gear and thrust washer, and they did not always go all of the way into the groove in the case. Maybe your snapring was never all of the way in the groove. I had to mess around with mine, sometimes, and even use a large flat screwdriver to poke them in the groove. |
Was thinking the same thing... _________________ Aaron D. Badertscher
Click here for ALL my links. |
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Busryder Samba SuperHero
Joined: September 17, 2007 Posts: 1663 Location: In Your Face...
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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WideFive wrote: |
Campy wrote: |
I've installed many snap rings in a side case over the side gear and thrust washer, and they did not always go all of the way into the groove in the case. Maybe your snapring was never all of the way in the groove. I had to mess around with mine, sometimes, and even use a large flat screwdriver to poke them in the groove. |
Was thinking the same thing... |
Cru, Wide5, all of the above checked out... and I made double sure that the snap ring was seated properly. The case was not broken/chipped, but the outside lip of the retaining groove was a bit buggered on one side... about 1/4th of an inch long. (Too dark to photo w/fone-camera, sorry.)
Faulty snap ring:
New-ish replacement snap ring... gently 'encouraged' into place. This is the nexus point, I get to work in reverse now... putting things back.
I put everything back together in the morning. The moment of truth will be tomorrow night!
Yay! _________________
Lind wrote: |
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time. |
I am a Dick, hear me roar-
Me, an OVP Lifer... |
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Campy Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2005 Posts: 4933 Location: Chico, CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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The snap ring was not broken and just popped out of the groove? That is probably what caused the scarring on the outer side of part of the groove (or was it there berfore?). In the picture, the damage by the groove looks bad enough so that the snap ring will pop out, again. The snapring would had to have lost some of its tension or else not been in the groove all of the way in order for it to pop out of the groove, if it had not broken.
How did the side gear, fulcrum plates, and shovel end of the axle look? _________________ Don't worry; be happy. (Baba) |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14266 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Busryder wrote: |
My guess is the big "C" clip that retains the axle at the diff... |
Busryder wrote: |
I found it.... WHY do you think this happened? |
What did you already know about it? The bent snap ring looks like it has had a lot of thrust from spider-gear to side-gear slop. Is your thrust washer thickness enough? |
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Busryder Samba SuperHero
Joined: September 17, 2007 Posts: 1663 Location: In Your Face...
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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BarryL wrote: |
Busryder wrote: |
My guess is the big "C" clip that retains the axle at the diff... |
Busryder wrote: |
I found it.... WHY do you think this happened? |
What did you already know about it? The bent snap ring looks like it has had a lot of thrust from spider-gear to side-gear slop. Is your thrust washer thickness enough? |
Almost nothing Barry... it's a used $100 68' bug trans though. Installed in August of 10'.
But I'm not sure how much stress I could've put on it in reverse during a mild three point turn? I have digi-calipers, how thick should the washer actually be?
I do not want to have to pull this shit all back apart if there is something that's gonna cause this to happen again soon...
I guess I'm feeling my age... I am pretty sore after yanking this all out yesterday.
It all should be back in tonight... keeping my fingers crossed.
Tank you for the comments so far guys. _________________
Lind wrote: |
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time. |
I am a Dick, hear me roar-
Me, an OVP Lifer... |
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Busryder Samba SuperHero
Joined: September 17, 2007 Posts: 1663 Location: In Your Face...
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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The transmission is back in... waiting for the new throwout bearing and clips. But it's lunch time now.
_________________
Lind wrote: |
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time. |
I am a Dick, hear me roar-
Me, an OVP Lifer... |
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wbrown45 Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2008 Posts: 1318 Location: ada, ok
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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That's good news. Aren't you glad it wasn't a modern car's automatic? They can set you back $3-4k! _________________ OK Thang |
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Busryder Samba SuperHero
Joined: September 17, 2007 Posts: 1663 Location: In Your Face...
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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wbrown45 wrote: |
That's good news. Aren't you glad it wasn't a modern car's automatic? ]They can set you back $3-4k! |
Yes I am! I'm even happier that I can/know how to do this work myself....
Anyway, after some delays... I have everything set up to drop it back on the ground. BUT..... I found a faulty hard line on the rear driver side. This is the only thing holding me up from driving the Westy home tonight. I'll get a new one on Monday, tomorrow morning.
She sleeps til then:
I'll have her ready for the Taco-Wagen by lunch time tomorrow afternoon.
Thanks for watching! _________________
Lind wrote: |
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time. |
I am a Dick, hear me roar-
Me, an OVP Lifer... |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14266 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:23 am Post subject: |
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Busryder wrote: |
wbrown45 wrote: |
That's good news. Aren't you glad it wasn't a modern car's automatic? ]They can set you back $3-4k! |
Yes I am! I'm even happier that I can/know how to do this work myself....
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I thought it was astute that you thought it was the snap-ring and it was the snap-ring. It could have been a lot of things: of course, nothing RGBesque. |
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Busryder Samba SuperHero
Joined: September 17, 2007 Posts: 1663 Location: In Your Face...
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Transmission Failure |
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Busryder wrote: |
It just 'popped' while in reverse during a three point turn. "POP".... then a slow grinding sound that was unaffected with the clutch pressed down. I had all four spots in the shift pattern, just no effect at the wheels.
I towed it the three... ...and there was a noticeable growl in neutral the whole way... |
Thanks B.... but to be very honest, it was just an educated guess. One that was purely based on the symptoms I was experiencing.
It was either this or a blown ring/pinion, which was less likely to have been the problem considering when the failure occurred.
Then, of course, making it to the show as a 'participant' rather than just a 'spectator' can be a pretty big motivator... I am NOT going to drive the Toyota to a show. Period. I'd almost rather stay home...
Busryder wrote: |
I am keeping track of this issue, and the ultimate solution, as I fix this before the Madera show on the 29th of this month.
Stay tuned! |
But thanks for the kind words.
If this pop's out again, could the little bit of bugger-ing I noticed on the retaining groove be the cause? (Duh) If so, is that groove cut into the transmission case, or in the diff itself?
I also took advantage of the time that the motor was out to do some routine maintenance, and close up some exhaust leaks.
And I should have this home tonight... barring any major accidents.
(Man am I sore... I can't wait for this to be done, I don't even want to look at tools for at least a week!)
Thanks! _________________
Lind wrote: |
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time. |
I am a Dick, hear me roar-
Me, an OVP Lifer... |
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Busryder Samba SuperHero
Joined: September 17, 2007 Posts: 1663 Location: In Your Face...
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Now ready to procede.... just need a partner to help with the bleeding of the brakes, and to wire up the new oil temp guage at the dash.
_________________
Lind wrote: |
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time. |
I am a Dick, hear me roar-
Me, an OVP Lifer... |
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Busryder Samba SuperHero
Joined: September 17, 2007 Posts: 1663 Location: In Your Face...
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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I now have gears! Yay!
BTW, I've taken all of these pics, as they've happend, with my Google phone...
Thanks for all the tips guys, really. _________________
Lind wrote: |
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time. |
I am a Dick, hear me roar-
Me, an OVP Lifer... |
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Busryder Samba SuperHero
Joined: September 17, 2007 Posts: 1663 Location: In Your Face...
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Busryder wrote: |
I now have gears! Yay! |
Not only do I have them... but they work too now!
The green stuff is WORX all natural hand cleaner... AWESOME shit!
And I just finished wiring up the new gauges... notice the OP gauge? Nice, huh?
Still looking for the right temp gauge though...
Thanks for watching, and for the tips, everyone. _________________
Lind wrote: |
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time. |
I am a Dick, hear me roar-
Me, an OVP Lifer... |
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Busryder Samba SuperHero
Joined: September 17, 2007 Posts: 1663 Location: In Your Face...
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Busryder wrote: |
I now have gears! Yay! |
Not only do I have them... but they work too now!
The green stuff is WORX all natural hand cleaner... AWESOME shit!
And I just finished wiring up the new gauges... notice the OP gauge? Nice, huh?
Still looking for the right temp gauge though...
Thanks for watching, and for the tips, everyone. _________________
Lind wrote: |
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time. |
I am a Dick, hear me roar-
Me, an OVP Lifer... |
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Culito 11010101
Joined: December 07, 2006 Posts: 5866 Location: Columbia Missourah
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Busryder, you are the king of quoting yourself! _________________ Copyright CJ Industries, Inc.
'64 standard w/2.0L type 4
'62 bug
johnnypan wrote: |
...dont pay no attention to Culito,he's a cornhole.. |
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