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RBEmerson Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011 Posts: 2108 Location: SE PA
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:51 am Post subject: Anti-freeze/coolant recommendations |
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In an e-mail conversation, a friend commented about using only VW anti-freeze to avoid doing Bad Things to the engine's cooling system (GW 2.2L). Somewhere I saw something about using only phosphate-free anti-freeze.
Recommendations? _________________ Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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James 93SLC Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 937 Location: NE Ohio
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Pretty much a non-issue now as 99% of the antifreeze on the market is phosphate free. There are so many cars now with aluminum heads and/or engines.
Here is the current label on a bottle of Prestone from Advance Auto.
_________________ -------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
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tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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bluefirefly Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2011 Posts: 438 Location: Calgary, Ab
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:28 am Post subject: |
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As long as you replace it every 2 years, you should not have any problem at all. _________________ 86 Syncro Tintop G60
work in progress ...as always! |
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joseph928 Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2011 Posts: 2114 Location: flagstaff az.
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:49 am Post subject: antifreeze |
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right almost all antifreeze is ok but why not do something good for the earth buy sierra antifreeze my syncro likes it, taste good last longer. _________________ 1987 syncro westy tin top sun roof , GW2.3, rear locker, decoupler, Gary Lee tire rack & winch mount, lift, south african grill, big brakes , rhein alloy ,15 BFG AT, Fiamma 10 foot awning ,140 watt rear 85 watt front solar , mppt, truckfridge, automatic fire extinguishing system, tencent oil cooler, And a RMW SS exhaust! - 1971 bug convertible 1776 engine- 2010 Subaru turbo - 1993 Toyota 4x4 truck - 1999 Harley 95 CI, big bore, Andrews cams . Also 80-84- vans. Stock 65 sunroof bug. |
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RBEmerson Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011 Posts: 2108 Location: SE PA
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for sorting that issue out.
Agreed that ethylene glycol is nasty stuff. _________________ Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50332
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:14 am Post subject: |
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James 93SLC wrote: |
Pretty much a non-issue now as 99% of the EXTENDED LIFE antifreeze on the market is phosphate free. |
Here fixed it for you, as much of the non-extended life stuff still has phosphates in it.
As far as I know the Sierra antifreeze is good as well, but lack extensive experience with it. |
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mtwrench540 Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2009 Posts: 351 Location: monterey,va
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:45 am Post subject: coolant replacing |
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my experience has been that these vans are self changeing!!
bluefirefly wrote: |
As long as you replace it every 2 years, you should not have any problem at all. |
_________________ 87 wolfsberg,74 181w/1915 and lots of patina! learned to fix vw's from hot vw mag in 1964,VWOA instructor,DSM,69 to73,service mgr at different porsche-audi dealers etc,etc,now retired!!! first vw new 64,transplanted 356 eng in 65,400characters are not enough space!! |
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debbiej Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2008 Posts: 1553 Location: las cruces, nm
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:47 am Post subject: |
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sad but true! |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50332
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:16 am Post subject: Re: coolant replacing |
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mtwrench540 wrote: |
my experience has been that these vans are self changeing!!
bluefirefly wrote: |
As long as you replace it every 2 years, you should not have any problem at all. |
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I pretty much never change the antifreeze, just add coolant conditioner once a year. My '91 self changed fairly frequently from the time we bought it new until it got the Subaru several years ago. No coolant leaks at all since then. My junk 83 1/2 got a coolant change on purchase and then made it without any substantial coolant issues until the engine died 75,000 miles later. My Syncro was somewhere between those two extremes. |
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randywebb Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005 Posts: 3815 Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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what kind of coolant conditioner do you add?
is it the product that Subaru dealers sell for their leaky heads? The one they source from the UK or something...? _________________ 1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50332
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Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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For my Suby van and WBXers I now use the Subaru stuff, in the past and for other engines I used the NAPA house brand. I buy a quart bottle and it last for years. |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:43 am Post subject: |
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Most class 8 trucks have a water filter.
Most of the better water filter's have a water conditioner "pill" inside the can.
The coolant, even with the conditioner in it, will not last forever.
The coolant will still suspend garbage, detrimental--especially to an aluminum engine.
It should be changed on a bi-yearly schedule--if you have any thoughts of lthe power plant lasting for awhile.
There is no magic formula, no miracle in a bottle, just common sense, and some periodic maintainence. _________________ T.K. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50332
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:52 am Post subject: |
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Terry Kay wrote: |
Most class 8 trucks have a water filter.
Most of the better water filter's have a water conditioner "pill" inside the can.
The coolant, even with the conditioner in it, will not last forever.
The coolant will still suspend garbage, detrimental--especially to an aluminum engine.
It should be changed on a bi-yearly schedule--if you have any thoughts of lthe power plant lasting for awhile.
There is no magic formula, no miracle in a bottle, just common sense, and some periodic maintainence. |
You can tell that this worried the "H" out of me. My Dodge which I have owned for 30 years has had the antifreeze changed at 10 year intervals and had one radiator leak over that time. For a truck that is now 40 years old and has many hundreds of thousands of miles on it, the single radiator failure is probably way better than average. My 91 WBXer made it until the rod bolts started to stretch at around 180K without the heads ever having to be redone, though they were leaking at that time and I had never once done a scheduled antifreeze change. I have never had to replace the radiators in any of my own Vanagons either. IMO if you add coolant conditioner and occasionally check your coolant with a test strip or meter then changing the antifeeze is a waste of time and money and may actually be detrimental. |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9797 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Wildthings wrote: |
...My 91 WBXer made it until... 180K without the heads ever having to be redone, though they were leaking at that time and I had never once done a scheduled antifreeze change... |
So... you didn't routinely change the coolant and by 180K the heads were leaking?
Coolant is pretty darn cheap (costs much less than a tank of gas) and not really the chore to change and bleed that some make it out to be -- so to me it seems a no-brainer. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50332
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Ahwahnee wrote: |
Wildthings wrote: |
...My 91 WBXer made it until... 180K without the heads ever having to be redone, though they were leaking at that time and I had never once done a scheduled antifreeze change... |
So... you didn't routinely change the coolant and by 180K the heads were leaking?
Coolant is pretty darn cheap (costs much less than a tank of gas) and not really the chore to change and bleed that some make it out to be -- so to me it seems a no-brainer. |
Yeap and the norm for people following VW recommendations of phosphate free coolant changed out frequently was for the heads to be weeping and have to come off at around 80,000 miles so my maintenance program let me better that by twice. As such it would be hard to show what could have been gained by changing out the coolant. Antifreeze does not break down, only the additives do. Keep the additive level up and you should have no problem running coolant for extended periods. I can add coolant conditioner to every vehicle in my fleet in less than 10 minutes so it gets done each and every year without fail. |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10075 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:18 am Post subject: Re: antifreeze |
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joseph928 wrote: |
right almost all antifreeze is ok but why not do something good for the earth buy sierra antifreeze my syncro likes it, taste good last longer. |
PG isn't any "greener" than EG, both biodegrade equally easily in active soils and are approved for disposal in sanitary sewers (i.e. municipal sewers; I don't know as I would dispose of either in a private septic system due to its small capacity). PG is only distinguished by its low toxicity (it is still toxic, but one would have to ingest quite a lot of it to cause harm), apart from that a PG/water mix is slightly less effective a heat transfer medium than an EG/water mix. But choosing PG isn't any better or worse for the earth than EG. Both require the same additive elements to be used in an engine cooling system, and I would hazard to say it's the additives that probably pose more danger to the environment than the glycol alone. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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randywebb Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005 Posts: 3815 Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:27 am Post subject: |
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I'm asking because I replaced the Temp II sensor and lost a fair amount of coolant before I was able to shove a catch pan under there.
My coolant is 2 years old now - sounds like I can go a bit further if I add the coolant conditioner and some distilled water... (?)
Another question -- various places around have test strips for coolant. Do these simply test the freezing point / boiling point, or do they test the conditioning package? _________________ 1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50332
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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randywebb wrote: |
I'm asking because I replaced the Temp II sensor and lost a fair amount of coolant before I was able to shove a catch pan under there.
My coolant is 2 years old now - sounds like I can go a bit further if I add the coolant conditioner and some distilled water... (?)
Another question -- various places around have test strips for coolant. Do these simply test the freezing point / boiling point, or do they test the conditioning package? |
Strip test for additives.
http://www.radstrips.com/
However if your coolant no longer will pass the strip test, you might want to change your antifreeze verses just adding coolant conditioner. I feel conditioner is a preventative measure and not something to start adding once the original additive package has gone to pot.
I add conditioner when I first do a coolant change on buying a new to me rig, or when an engine has been overhauled and then add it regularly from there. |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: coolant replacing |
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Wildthings wrote: |
I pretty much never change the antifreeze, just add coolant conditioner once a year. My '91 self changed fairly frequently from the time we bought it new until it got the Subaru several years ago. No coolant leaks at all since then. My junk 83 1/2 got a coolant change on purchase and then made it without any substantial coolant issues until the engine died 75,000 miles later. My Syncro was somewhere between those two extremes. |
And all of this good information is coming to you live direct from the Wildthang, who runs 5/30 in his engine 24/7/367 wihich is agiainst any logical thinking, against the grain of the VW issue owner's manual, & against the grain of the information listed in the back of the self service portion of the oh holy Bentley.
If you made a phone call to a VW Dealer they would tell you this is a bad idea themselves .
Now here he is--the oil man, suggesting to forget changing the coolant every two years--just keep topping off that coolant with conditioner.
As someone else mentioned-- it's pretty cheap insurance to change the coolant every once inwhile.
There is going to be a time that that coolant , regardless of how much conditioner he tosses at it will become over saturated with combustion by-products.
It's a way of the inyternal combustion engine, and no conditioner is going to remove that.
Lime & mineral scale from the water your mixing will eventually over contaminate that coolant.
No conditioner will overcome this phenomina--forever.
Subaru conditioner AND STOP LEAK ONCE A YEAR?( and this is what this stuff is--conditioner & stop leak)
Perfect suggestion for a long term mix of jello for coolant.
Real good suggetion there Wildthang--
I'll take a pass & change the coolant every 2 years--it ain't goona break the bank. _________________ T.K. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50332
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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My engines last longer than most with the oils I run and the way I treat my coolant. How old is your radiator? Mine is still original and cools just fine at 300K miles. Why are you getting products of combustion into your coolant? Maybe its time you fixed those compression leaks. Lime and mineral scale??? Is that coming from you Chicago tap water? Try some distilled water next time? |
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