'59 industrial engine

[consvws]

Got this old industrial engine running yesterday. Wondering if it will just bolt right up to a 58 beetle or if that exhaust will be a problem

[tallman206]

Hello consvws;
Your industrial engine is a bit interesting.
It looks like it has the correct flywheel if you have started it with the transaxle in your pictures. It probably has a 180mm clutch, but from what I understand, the Porsche flywheel and clutches have different thickness dimensions than VW. I used a clutch disc and pressure plate from Kennedy Engineering on my industrial engine to VW setup.

You engine also looks to have modified front and rear tin to fit a VW application. The side tin above the valve covers looks a bit dodgy, so you may have to test fit to see if some additional sealing work is needed here.

The biggest area as you noted is the exhaust. It looks to be a special Leistritz muffler, similar to a 356/912, but if the intake heater risers are there, it is a very unusual muffler. Save that for someone doing a 356 engine in a bus or thing conversion. I doubt if it will go in a beetle, as it may be too wide - a quick measurement of your 58 would tell. But I would save that muffler, and put something else on there, such as headers or a less expensive industrial muffler that you can cut down to proper width. I have some Boysen industrial mufflers that can be cut down. I used one (intact) on my industrial to Thing conversion.

Its nice to see it has heat exchanger boxes. Most industrials do not have them. Yours must have seen previous service in a vehicle that requried heat (bus, snow-cat, etc.) The zenith carb is different in that it has the fuel enrichment (similar to choke) device to help starting.

Also, that distributor is unique, if it is hooked up to the Zenith, save that arrangement, as it will probably work better than an 018 or 022 centrifugal distributor. See if Glenn Ring can spruce it up and check it out.
Your crank pulley has markings for TDC (OT), electric ignition (EZ) and magneto ignition (MZ) - neat!. Do reconsider and remove the plastic fuel filter between the pump and carb, and move it to elsewhere, like under the car where it exits the framehorns. Much safer there.

Looks like a nice project. If I read the name plate correctly, you may have around 60 horspower (DIN, not SAE), which will be a great driving engine, as mine is!
_________________
Jerry Henning
Southern Classic Works
St.Petersburg, Florida
1973 VW Type 181 with 616/33-6 powerplant
1962 356B-T6 Cabriolet Rustbucket

[consvws]

Thanks tallman, The engine was in a bus so yes, some of the tin was swapped &/or modified to fit.
The 2 piece 180mm pressure plate is pretty interesting also (never seen one like it)
I should just go throw some measurements down & start hunting for an exhaust most likely. The heat risers are there, but looks like they were added to the muffler.

[Jacks]

Yeah, I think that muffler is way too wide.
_________________
Jack Staggs
Actual name

[tallman206]

If you know, or can locate Stan Hanks in OR, he has lots of knowlege of 356 into VW sedans.
Also, if you are not doing anything this weekend, come to McMinnville with us to Gary Emory's Parts Obsolete Campout. Lots of knowledgeable persons there with both 356s and VWs. Sunday is a swap meet, and that is where I bought my tin to convert my industrial to my Thing. Also Stan Hanks is usually present, and sells a lot of stuff there on Sunday mornings as well.

This Friday, all the "special cars" are going over to the Evergreen Museum to park underneath the wings of the Spruce Goose for a photo op. Saturday there is usually a peoples' choice car show and a BBQ. This is the last one this year! Not to be missed!
_________________
Jerry Henning
Southern Classic Works
St.Petersburg, Florida
1973 VW Type 181 with 616/33-6 powerplant
1962 356B-T6 Cabriolet Rustbucket

[tallman206]

Here is My Industrial engine on my Thing Chassis before the body was completed. It is a '72 engine in my '73 Thing. Close! Yours is a '59 engine for your '58 Beetle. Just as appropriate!

The muffler is a Boysen brand. The odd black thing bolted to the top of the muffler is a support for the hand crank. I had to eventually remove it because it wouldn't fit behind the Thing bumper, but the Thing bumper already has a support hole for a hand crank!

See how wide the muffler is. The Dansk and Leistritz mufflers are equally as wide. None of these would probably fit in a Beetle due to the width underneath for the wheel wells and bumper mounting area. I have more of these Boysen mufflers that could probably be cut down by a knowledgeable welder. Or just go get some headers, new or used.
_________________
Jerry Henning
Southern Classic Works
St.Petersburg, Florida
1973 VW Type 181 with 616/33-6 powerplant
1962 356B-T6 Cabriolet Rustbucket

[consvws]

Well, i'd love to make it to the porsche campout, but i just sold my daily driver (78 Champagne Edition 2), & all my "special cars" are work in progress, or missing the engine completely ......, but if i find an exhaust this could change!
Your Industrial VW Thing is quite a beauty! Will you be driving this to McMinnville?

Here is a little clip of the engine running. The temporary fuel filter will be eliminated ASAP,
http://s1091.photobucket.com/albums/i385/radconsmo...ine001.mp4

[tallman206]

Thanks for the compliments. You can see more of my build over on the Type 181 Forum.

I like the Asphalt Burner tail pipes that were shown in the video!

Alas, no, I will not be driving it from Atlanta! I would have had to have started across the States by now to get there in time. I have always flown out to PDX in past years, and taken my camping gear, as I am doing this year. Even if you don't have a 'special car', do come anyway, even if for a day, as it is always worth it. "Special cars" are not just 356s - they include all related breeds, outlaws, replicars, Tibute Cars (How about that for an appropriate term, Jack!), Intermechanicas, real Kubelwagens, type 2s with 911 engines, VWs, etc, you name it! A Perfect SAMBA-Style weekend! Search out the Techie's Tent Camp for all the knowlegable mechanics and their advice, humor and good cheer.
_________________
Jerry Henning
Southern Classic Works
St.Petersburg, Florida
1973 VW Type 181 with 616/33-6 powerplant
1962 356B-T6 Cabriolet Rustbucket

[Jacks]

I like it
_________________
Jack Staggs
Actual name

[saddlesore1]

I have both a VW motor (1973) and Porsche motor (1960)
I am not a fan of stuffing a Porsche 356 motor into a VW. It is not because I am a purist. Do what ever blows yer skirt up. I prefer the VW motor over the Porsche. With the lighter flywheel I get greater response off the line. The VW feels quicker. The Porsche is faster (top speed) but takes a while to get there. By the time you dial the Porsche motor in to be comparable with the VW quickness you have spent a fortune. By the time you spend the money to get the VW to fastness you spent pennies in comparison.

Just a thought.

[tallman206]

Thanks for the thought, saddlesore1. As they say - To each his own.

But several points may have been missed that people must have considered when choosing to put a 356 engine transplant into a VW. Historically, there have been plenty of people that have done the transplant with very pleasing results.

The first is probably availability. In my case, I had a brand new industrial in the crate, and it was not going to cost me much to use it. I already had most of the parts in my spares collection - they just needed some amount of easy restoration. The entire industrial long block was not touched. As someone has said before, "If you've got one, drive it!". Its not a museum piece, after all. Consvws seems to be in a similar boat - he has the running engine and it is going to cost him little to put it into his Beetle and enjoy.

Second, its not always about max horsepower. A modest increase in HP over a stock VW 30PS or 44PS engine from a well behaved 356 industrial engine (stock, CR 7.5;1 regular gas!) GREATLY improves the drivability, especially at lower speeds where the large displacement (1700cc) and nicer torquey performance occurs. I also personally like the sound of the 356 engine over its stock VW counterpart. Consvw will also probably enjoy much more fun than with the stock 30PS engine.

I will easily concede that you can get greater performance gains per dollar spent with a VW solution, but in my case, that is not what I was after. I personally feel that a hopped up engine (VW or Porsche) with lightened flywheel, agressive cam, higher displacement and CR, non-stock carbs and distributor, although a hoot to drive in an agressive manner, are usually poor performers when asked to be used for more relaxed driving. I got everything I desired from my project, and enjoy driving it every chance I get. And with 60 reliable horsepower (equivalent to a Normal engine), there was no need to upgrade the rest of the car to handle more agressive HP options - like disc brakes, stronger tranny, improved suspension, etc. That lowers the overall cost of the project as much as the choice of engines.

So to each his own. We can all agree to disagree on many of our choices in life. That's what makes this life interesting - diversity and tolerance! and noh8!
_________________
Jerry Henning
Southern Classic Works
St.Petersburg, Florida
1973 VW Type 181 with 616/33-6 powerplant
1962 356B-T6 Cabriolet Rustbucket

[tallman206]

If I may, a short story related to the above rant.

I just love the sound of the 356 engine. After I had mostly completed my Thing restoration, I took it to its first show at Bug-a-Paluza 2010 in Chattanooga. I had just driven into the display area and parked my Thing. A gentleman (and his wife) walked up behind me and asked what kind of engine I had in it. I opened the engine bay to proudly display my 356 industrial. The man said "I knew it! I heard you drive by and could tell by the sound that there was no VW engine in there! I had to come over and see what was inside.". I talked with him a bit more, and then he introduced himself. It was Jake Raby.
_________________
Jerry Henning
Southern Classic Works
St.Petersburg, Florida
1973 VW Type 181 with 616/33-6 powerplant
1962 356B-T6 Cabriolet Rustbucket

[dsrtfox]

When I put a Super 75 in my 64 bug there wasen't a stock VW in the world or even the universe that could take it off the line. By a long shot. Just sayin...

[Jake Raby]

[savaden]

The old Thunderbird exhaust headers, the kind that fold across each other like folded arms are just the ticket for putting a 356 engine in a VW. They can be a little hard to find, though.

SV

[mtwrench540]

measure between bumper brackets, cut ends of of liestrich muffler,and shorten !worked on my 64 many years ago!!!
_________________
87 wolfsberg,74 181w/1915 and lots of patina! learned to fix vw's from hot vw mag in 1964,VWOA instructor,DSM,69 to73,service mgr at different porsche-audi dealers etc,etc,now retired!!! first vw new 64,transplanted 356 eng in 65,400characters are not enough space!!