sandrail bump steer fix?

[Wayne26]

Hi everyone


I'm getting ready to buy new tierods and wanted to ask about possibly getting two long instead of the long/short stock setup.

see multiple threads about setting up the two long tierods like the picture below, but some are saying it will work and some are saying the bump steer will be worse. so is it better or worse to do it like in the picture below?

I could also add a second steering stabilizer, might help some?

[Vanapplebomb]

[Wayne26]

"steering wheel to jerk when you run over bumps"

that's the main thing I'm trying to fix, have hurt my hand pretty good a few times depening on how Im holding the wheel.

figured if the two long tierods might help some and Im buying new ones anyway it would be win win. just don't want to buy new tierods weld/paint and have it turn out worse or do nothing.

[Wayne26]

anyone else want to chime in before Sunday? I want to go down and buy the last tierod. would be nice to hear from anyone that's done it if the steering wheel jerks any less with the long tierod.

got a thru rod instead of the top spring.

last part to replace.

have a billet steering box cover, mounting bracket and chrome pitman arm to install. ordered them after seeing how ugly the old ones are as I did not spend enough time painting them...lol

[shred625]

Center mount the steering and go to equal length tie rods. Once that is done you will need to take the spring packs out and cycle the front end and play with the clocking of the steering box and cycle it till you get as little bump steer as possible.

Much better of using a center mount rack for this but you do what you need to do.

I have seen cars setup like this with as little as 1/16 bump steer.
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“It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.”
~ Jack Handey

[Vanapplebomb]

I wouldn't go with two long tie rods. I thought about it at one point, but I have since dismissed the idea.

Instead of going down to buy a long tie rod, go and buy a stock style steering coupler. Those urethane ones crack with regular use...VERY dangerous when your driving. The stock rubber ones have fabric reinforcing cast into the rubber. They are more flexible and much tougher than the urethane ones. Urethane is good for some parts...unfortunately, steering couplers are NOT the place to use it .
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[jracer98]

What did you use for the thru rod? I am considering doing this to lower my front ride rate.

Also, did you lose any front ride height by cutting the spring rate in half?

thanks for any info

jay

[Vanapplebomb]

Here is another thing you should do while your at it. Take your front end apart and use the thru-rod on the bottom and put the torsion leaf pack on the top. This will make your front end considerably stronger because a lot of the load will be taken off the lower ball joint. Ball joints can pop apart when then are in a lot of tension. If you put your leaf pack in the top, the top ball joint will be in compression. Ball joints don't pop apart when they are in compression.

Here is your to do list:

1st) Change steering coupler
2nd) Put through rod on the bottom and the torsion leaf pack on the top

Once you have done that, then address your twitchy steering wheel issue. I say this because if your steering wheel is jerking hard, you are probably driving it hard enough that these parts (the red steering coupler and lower ball joint) will be the first to go.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[Vanapplebomb]

Here is another thing you should do while your at it. Take your front end apart and use the thru-rod on the bottom and put the torsion leaf pack on the top. This will make your front end considerably stronger because a lot of the load will be taken off the lower ball joint. Ball joints can pop apart when then are in a lot of tension. If you put your leaf pack in the top, the top ball joint will be in compression. Ball joints don't pop apart when they are in compression.

Here is your to do list:

1st) Change steering coupler
2nd) Put through rod on the bottom and the torsion leaf pack on the top

Once you have done that, then address your twitchy steering wheel issue. I say this because if your steering wheel is jerking hard, you are probably driving it hard enough that these parts (the red steering coupler and lower ball joint) will be the first to go.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[Wayne26]

[Wayne26]

[jracer98]

[Wayne26]

are you looking to raise or lower it?

[DHale_510]

What you are chasing is technically not bump steer but steering shock. Bump steer is where the toe changes as the wheel travels. Different thing to "fix".
The little steering quickener you have is a bad thing for this. It quickens the feel but magnifies the shock, and adds a little true bump steer into the mix.
Your shocks may be too stiff for the weight and will cause some steering jerkiness, "Worn" front shocks are popular on buggies for this reason.
There used to be spring steel long side tie rods that we used more on Baja Bugs to help, I haven't seen them advertised for a long time, but they are still out there. Maybe a stock long rod with about 1" of bow in the middle would help on a buggy. They made the steering a bit vague but solved the breakage problem of the overloaded stock spindles.
Toe in ought to lessen steering shock, toe out increase it. Likewise low air pressure ought to lessen it. Most buggies weigh undeer 200# on the front and only "need" about 12# of air in the tires. Maybe 4# in the sand, just enough to keep them beaded.

[Gary Massin-Ball]

Hey Wayne that is my car you have pictured in the first post.

That system came out of the necessity to stop bending parts under full jounce.

Every time I landed a large jump the front left wheel would wank out hard left due to the short tie rod on the left side and bend tie rod ends, steering arms on the spindles and rip tires of the rim on extreme landings.

Ad that to the fact that I did not really want to spend a whack of cash for rack and pinion and I cannot center mount a steering box cause I have adjusters.

Since I did this mod I have had zero damage to the front end and it stears and drives perfectly. If you think about it all I have done is added a drag link.

The tie rods are actually longer than I could have acheived with a rack and pinion giving even less bump steer than with a rack system.


I also have only torsions in the top and a thru rod in the bottom. I had to re index the top adjuster though to regain the hieght I had with double springs.


Gary
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Warrior sand rail:
2276cc 82x94
Engle FK-41 with 1.25:1 street style rockers
40x35.5 stock cast single port heads
Single 40mm Kadron w/32vent
Equalizer 5lb pulley
Stock lifters
Stock aluminum pushrods
26mm aluminum oil pump full flow
*Poor mans rack and pinion up front*
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The Ugly Bug is on the road!