pop goes the coolant system

[atomatom]

I wanted to confirm this song sounds familiar and/or reasonable. And maybe it'll give some insight to others who are have an issue with the coolant system on what to expect. (this is an 84 westy)

All around the Mulberry bush...

I noticed the coolant reservoir (behind licence plate) was way over max after a hardish drive, lots of mountains. I was told this is normal. But then the coolant stayed up and the level did not go down at all. (Note: the temperature seemed fine - although my van has an aftermarket temp gauge because the original temp is dead (although the coolant level sensor still works). Also, previously I had heard the radiator fan on - eg, when I switched the van off.)

About to embark on a long family journey through wolf and bear wilderness, I had it checked out and the coolant flushed as an offering to the van gods.

First stop was the expansion cap. Replaced because it was faulty. But then they noticed the front rad not getting hot.

So they replaced the coolant thermostat.

Then they revved up the van's engine to see if the rad was working, and pop went the bleeder valve housing. The mechanic replaced the housing with a used part.

Then after many hours, the mechanic found part of a metal seal from a coolant bottle lodged in one of the pipes. Eesh. All seemed good.

At my request, they stress tested it by driving it up one of the bigger hills in town. Then pop went the rear heater core. (fortunately? the front heater core was already bypassed since it was leaking - this was done a few weeks earlier)

After bypassing the heater core and driving back to the shop, the used bleeder valve housing replacement went pop.

So now I have ordered a metal bleeder valve housing ( http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_673_221/connectorsjunctions_-_see_description.html ) and also a metal H pipe (http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_677_221/connectorsjunctions_-_8385_h_pipe.html), and a replacement reservoir tank (not expansion tank) since the old one was cracked.

What sucks is that this replace, pop, repeat is accumulating a lot of mechanic hours and $$$ and I don't know what is next. Are there any other components left to go in the coolant system - and are the ones that did go common points of failure? My mechanic suggested the H pipe as the remaining thing that could go - also the front heater core control valve (but I'll save replacing that one for when I fix the front heater core).

My question for the Van gurus out there, is does this tale sound reasonable? It seems so to me - the expansion cap not being tight meant the system was not pressurized... and now under pressure, worn parts are starting to blow. This all sounds reasonable enough to me. Does it to you? But then maybe these parts may have had a longer life if the van had not been run with a blocked coolant pipe and higher temps?

I like this mechanic, but part of me wonders if this diagnosis and fix/repair was reasonable? All said though, fixing 30 year old vehicles seems like a pretty delicate thing with plenty that can and does go wrong. And, I'm very glad these issues did not happen to me on the road. (those ones are still waiting for me! )

Overall, I am ok with investing some love and parts in our van - our budget was 50/50 van price/van repair and we are still ahead (he says, tempting fate). I would way much spend the money on parts than on towing and/or getting it fixed by a non-VW specialist in the middle of nowhere. I am also slowly learning about each of the van's systems - although my life has scant time for working on engines these days, but perhaps that'll change.

[Ahwahnee]

I've had pretty good luck on my 84 with replacing cooling systems parts as they failed -- by good luck I mean they have never left me stranded and usually gave some indication of impending failure w/o sudden breakage or else they failed in the garage during maintenance.

But that said, many parts have failed. I have never been tempted to just replace everything at once as the remaining original parts still seem fine but a complete replacement with upgrades (where available) would likely dispel some of the inherent risk in driving a 28 year old vehicle.

Sounds reasonable to me that in the course of sorting out your issues several parts failed when correct pressure was restored though the bleeder valve is a fragile part that (in my opinion) is most likely to be broken by rough treatment - esp if the failure was at that small outlet barb.

[atomatom]

Yeah, I'm hoping the bears aren't going to be cheering for a head gasket job. It does not sound like the kind of thing to do on the road. Apparently all the heads have been replaced, so hopefully this is not on the cards.

[JPrato]

You have just learned the lesson I did many years ago. It is cheaper, more reliable and more convenient to replace all the cooling components at once. Unless you like be stranded in some location maybe with warped heads when you least expect it. Cooling components have a life of around 10 years, then it just like going to Vegas.

Now, if you only drove in a few mile radius from home you could just drive until another component blows out, tow the van home and fix it. It gets expensive buying replacement antifreeze for all stuff that leaked out on the road though.
_________________
Joe

87 Syncro Tin Top project
84 Westy, 2.5L Subaru power
06 Subaru 2.5 turbo in waiting
46 Cessna 140

[Ahwahnee]

[atomatom]

thanks to both of you for the tales and smiles.

jprato - how much of the system did you replace? i asked about replacing the steel coolant pipes, but those are apparently fine - presume the same goes on other metal components that are not showing rust and/or corrosion. all rubber hoses likely replacement at some time. any verdict on the difference between VW parts vs generic heater hose?

parts bear says "hey, the markup is not that brutal given your other options!"

[Ahwahnee]

[atomatom]

but given

[whafalia]

As deep as you are now I'd go ahead and put a new radiator in.
Can you tell if the metal H-pipe has the flow-through between the upper and lower pipes like the original? I replaced mine with adaptors to go straight through when there were no new replacements available and it does take a few more blocks to come up to temp, I believe.

[atomatom]

[xoo00oox]

Make sure that new cap is releasing pressure when it should. With new parts, some times I think there is more junk than good out there these days.

[atomatom]

thanks for the tip about the cap. i found this thread while researching bad caps more (though this turned out to be a bad radiator)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=472510

i will ask the mechanic how/if he is testing the system pressure. making the entire system endure really high PSI seems an expensive fix, but certainly sounds like something that would make things go pop.

[Wildthings]

[?Waldo?]

Wait for the van to cool over night. Remove the expansion tank cap (the one in the engine compartment) in order to relieve any residual pressure/vacuum. Replace the cap. Start eh van, let it run for a few seconds then rev it up a couple times and shut it off. Go back to the tank and open the cap again while listening closely for any hiss of pressure. If pressure is present then get the coolant tested for exhaust gases.

[DAIZEE]

Having had multiple, multiple breakdowns due to the cooling system, when I got the new 98 Jetta engine early last summer, I splurged on Silicone hoses and new radiator. No problems for past year. Sometimes going up steep eastern mountains, temp goes up a bit and if I see it creeping on goes the front heater system with full fan. Now I am not recommending silicone hoses, I just didn't want to put used in and so I went with silicone. The radiator appeared to be good but once removed, it was VERY heavy steel and lots of sedament. I should have had shares in coolant, I went thru 6 or 7 big bottles. Just had a weird leak last week and it was one of the bolt holes in the thermostat housing. Replaced both thermostat and housing and problem solved.

Scooby is really happy for the complete new system and I am also!

ps I still carry bear spray!
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[Ahwahnee]

[Wildthings]

[morymob]

Around 15psi/stock, mine-'o', for last 20+yrs. Cruised sat in 90+ to a show, had the Red-Tek circulating,nice and cool, great weather to really test things out.

[Jake de Villiers]

[atomatom]

I asked the mechanic if he tested the PSI and he gave me that 'what you think i am stupid' kind of tones back - which was totally deserved. He has a pressure test tool and it is 15PSI as to be expected.

Has anyone considered installing a pressure gauge in the cooling system that is permanent? It should really go on the dashboard. Given the frequency and severity of coolant system woes I wonder if anyone has considered this kind of modification - or if there is some reason it would be impossible.