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Hard Start Relay Help
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Swellchaser
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject: Hard Start Relay Help Reply with quote

I purchased the Hard Start Relay Kit from CIP1 and I am a bit confused with the install. http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-17-2917

The instructions says "Choose a mounting point for the relay close to starter and mount the relay..."

The length of wire on the kit is only about 1 foot, but the starter location is towards the rear of the vehicle. Am I supposed to extend all the wires? The rest of the connections are at the batter terminal

The "hard start" kit is also for "hot starts" correct?
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's where I mounted mine on an 84 (that thing with a 'B' on it):

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I did not use that kit so can't comment specifically, but you may well need longer wires than were provided.
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chimivee
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mount in the engine bay. No need to extend wires - connect to the battery by attaching to the big terminal (#30 I think) on the starter.
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Swellchaser
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks,

My starter/solenoid is located underneath the van, aligned with the rear wheels. It's looking like I will have to mount it in that area.

Is there any difference between "hard start" and "Hot Start" relay?
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Timwhy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swellchaser wrote:
Thanks,

My starter/solenoid is located underneath the van, aligned with the rear wheels. It's looking like I will have to mount it in that area.

Is there any difference between "hard start" and "Hot Start" relay?


No you shouldn't have to!
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swellchaser wrote:
My starter/solenoid is located underneath the van, aligned with the rear wheels. It's looking like I will have to mount it in that area.


You don't say what vehicle this is for, but on the Vanagon the starter is located mere inches from that spot I show in the photo. Move your eyes to the left a bit (looking at the front of the engine bay) and you're looking at the solenoid.

S = Starter Solenoid / R = Relay

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Quote:
Is there any difference between "hard start" and "Hot Start" relay?


Same difference.


Last edited by Ahwahnee on Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Swellchaser
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To access mine I have to go under the vehicle. 1980 Westfalia
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peaceful warrior
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mounted mine on the side of the engine bay, just to the right of where Ahwahnee mounted his, just in front of the air cleaner box.....lot's of room and easy wiring from there.
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thatvwbusguy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original hard start relay is the Bosch WR1. The wires on the WR1 or any other normal VW hard start relay should be at least 20"-24". Are you sure they sent you the right part? If you can post a photo of your relay I can confirm what you have and help you through the rest of the install.
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Swellchaser
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the exact product I received/purchased

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-17-2917

It appears to be a universal relay. The wires are 15inchs long
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thatvwbusguy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is definitely a universal relay pigtail, but it should still work. See if you can find a place on the forward wall of the engine bay that will allow the wires to reach the starter. There are some photos of the connections on my website here:

https://sites.google.com/site/vanagonheadlightrela...all-photos
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Swellchaser
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's funny, I was JUST looking at your site. Very nice! I Should of bought your relay instead. The one I have is all plastic (even the mounting bracket) and the wires don't seem to be that thick at all.

Thanks
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randywebb
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

related question: do only the early Vans have hot start problems needing a relay, or do the 1986-later ones have the same problem?
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just the vans with the ignition switch up front and the engine/tranny/starter in the rear have such a propensity to benefit from the relay kits.

Mark


randywebb wrote:
related question: do only the early Vans have hot start problems needing a relay, or do the 1986-later ones have the same problem?
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peaceful warrior
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
Just the vans with the ignition switch up front and the engine/tranny/starter in the rear have such a propensity to benefit from the relay kits.

Mark


randywebb wrote:
related question: do only the early Vans have hot start problems needing a relay, or do the 1986-later ones have the same problem?


Laughing Laughing too funny! That only leaves out the EV. Wink
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randywebb
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what causes the hot start problem?

does the cable heat up, changing the resistivity, or what?
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Swellchaser
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Installed mine today. Didn't need to extend the wires. Mounted it in the engine bay and ran everything to the starter. Now ready for a long warm ride to test it out Smile
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GarththeVan
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Hard Start Relay Help Reply with quote

Any chance a start relay kit would ensure my Van starts every time? I'm planning on my 85 Vanagon being a daily driver and would like to not get stranded in the city or in the middle of nowhere. On a few posts I've seen people mentioning installing one of these as a list of priorities when getting a Vanagon. My Van doesnt start intermittently and sometimes wont start if it dies after it stalls at idle. Haven't found conclusive evidence that these kits will help. Only seen them used for hot start issues. Could anyone provide me some info? Thanks!
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Hard Start Relay Help Reply with quote

GarththeVan wrote:
Any chance a start relay kit would ensure my Van starts every time?


No.

There are many things that can prevent an engine from cranking - dirty connections, weak or dead battery, faulty ignition switch, loose connections, faulty solenoid, failed starter, etc -- the relay does nothing for all of those.

Its function is to greatly shorten the current path and the commensurate voltage drop that occurs with the stock wiring. A situation that usually shows up as difficulty getting the starter to crank when it is very hot. Typically this is more than just a hot engine - I would experience it after a brief stop following a hot drive as the starter (really the solenoid) got heat-soaked from the engine.

All that is just cranking - you ask about starting and the list of things that can prevent that is long enough to make you marvel anything ever works.
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