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bdkee Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 16 Location: Athens, GA
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Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:14 am Post subject: '91 Vanagon Starting Issues |
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Hi Samba World,
I've got a '91 Vanagon that has recently developed a starter issue. Over the last couple days when I turn the key to "on" the fuel pump primes as usual but when I turn to "start" there's nothing. No click from the solenoid. After turing the key about 5-10 times the starter will finally engage and it cranks right up. Yesterday though this stopped working so I just had to push it off.
Any ideas as to the cause? With past starters that have a bad solenoid I normally get a click and with a tap can get it free up but since there's no click I'm not positive that this is the issue.
Next step would probably be to remove the starter and bench test it but I won't be back to a place where I can do that for a couple weeks.
Thanks!
Brian |
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AdrianC Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2012 Posts: 526 Location: Wherever the road's gone
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Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:27 am Post subject: Re: '91 Vanagon Starting Issues |
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bdkee wrote: |
Next step would probably be to remove the starter and bench test it but I won't be back to a place where I can do that for a couple weeks. |
Just give the solenoid's small terminal a tickle with a wire connected to +12v. If the starter & solenoid are good, it'll spin, and your problem's somewhere further back. Ignition switch?
(and I don't s'pose I need to emphasise checking it's out of gear first, do I? No? Good...) _________________ Adrian
Zookeeper of a miscellany of motoring silliness, from 0.75bhp to 9ft tall.
Living life on the road in an '88 2.1DJ Westfalia Club Joker Hightop.
www.WhereverTheRoadGoes.com |
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peaceful warrior Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2005 Posts: 5274 Location: Taoswest, USA
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Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Using your Bentley Manual...hint, hint, nudge, nudge disconnect the ignition harness under the column, and go thru the jump the connections with a wire procedure. This will rule out or rule in the starter or the ignition switch.
That is where I started before deciding it was the starter. At least
replacement of the starter is easier on a 2WD then it was on my Syncro.
Oh, and it might not be a bad idea to install a hard start relay, if you do have to replace the starter. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1066289 _________________ "Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
"Notchboy" says "Man up!"
"Tram" says " My bus is bigger than your bus."
66 13W Deluxe, 68 Westfalia, 87 Syncro.
TOOB Member #15
Brian |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10347 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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A new ignition switch is inexpensive, easy to swap for diagnostic purposes (check archives here for that) and a great spare part to carry. The do wear out.
Neil. _________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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randywebb Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005 Posts: 3815 Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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peaceful warrior wrote: |
Using your Bentley Manual... disconnect the ignition harness under the column, and go thru the jump the connections with a wire procedure. This will rule out or rule in the starter or the ignition switch.
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I am not finding that procedure - there is a flow chart at 27.13 tho (??) _________________ 1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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peaceful warrior Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2005 Posts: 5274 Location: Taoswest, USA
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Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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randywebb wrote: |
peaceful warrior wrote: |
Using your Bentley Manual... disconnect the ignition harness under the column, and go thru the jump the connections with a wire procedure. This will rule out or rule in the starter or the ignition switch.
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I am not finding that procedure - there is a flow chart at 27.13 tho (??) |
I don't have my manual handy at the moment. Maybe someone else can jump in here and tell you how to do it. Without knowing which connections are which, it is basically jumping from power wire in, to the wire going out to FP, Starter, etc. Can you make that out on the diagram?
If you can get it to start from the harness connector, that would lead you to the ignition switch being bad. _________________ "Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
"Notchboy" says "Man up!"
"Tram" says " My bus is bigger than your bus."
66 13W Deluxe, 68 Westfalia, 87 Syncro.
TOOB Member #15
Brian |
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bdkee Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 16 Location: Athens, GA
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Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks all!! I'll get to testing as suggested. I think swapping out the ignition switch sounds like a good starting point and good way to eliminate that. I'll update once as I go.
Thanks again.
Brian |
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thatvwbusguy Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2007 Posts: 1712 Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:43 am Post subject: |
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Here is the proceedure to jumper the starter via the ignition switch socket. I copied this from a post a while back and can't remember who originally wrote it at this point. Anyway, here goes.......
Ignition Switch Bypass - Jumper Wire Starting Method:
Remove the plastic cover from the steering column and pull the black socket off the bottom of the ignition switch.
Insert a jumper wire between the large red wire and the solid black wire (a bent paper clip works well, but will get hot, so be careful). You should hear the fuel pump run at this point.
If you hear the fuel pump, leave the first jumper (large red to black) in place and insert another jumper wire between the large red wire and the red/white wire. This is your starter wire.
The engine should turn over at this point. If the engine starts, remove the big red to red/white jumper wire immediately. If you don't remove this jumper, the starter will continue to run just like holding the key in the start position. _________________ Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion. |
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peaceful warrior Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2005 Posts: 5274 Location: Taoswest, USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:42 am Post subject: |
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thatvwbusguy wrote: |
Here is the proceedure to jumper the starter via the ignition switch socket. I copied this from a post a while back and can't remember who originally wrote it at this point. Anyway, here goes.......
Ignition Switch Bypass - Jumper Wire Starting Method:
Remove the plastic cover from the steering column and pull the black socket off the bottom of the ignition switch.
Insert a jumper wire between the large red wire and the solid black wire (a bent paper clip works well, but will get hot, so be careful). You should hear the fuel pump run at this point.
If you hear the fuel pump, leave the first jumper (large red to black) in place and insert another jumper wire between the large red wire and the red/white wire. This is your starter wire.
The engine should turn over at this point. If the engine starts, remove the big red to red/white jumper wire immediately. If you don't remove this jumper, the starter will continue to run just like holding the key in the start position. |
Thanks Jay! _________________ "Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
"Notchboy" says "Man up!"
"Tram" says " My bus is bigger than your bus."
66 13W Deluxe, 68 Westfalia, 87 Syncro.
TOOB Member #15
Brian |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9776 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Should we change the subject line to "How to Steal a Vanagon"?
Seriously, a useful post and I assume most bad guys are already skilled at this. |
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thatvwbusguy Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2007 Posts: 1712 Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:30 am Post subject: |
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You would still need the key to defeat the ignition lock to turn the steering wheel. You can start the van without the key, but driving it will be a completely different story. _________________ Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
Last edited by thatvwbusguy on Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:09 am; edited 2 times in total |
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BoneMachine Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2012 Posts: 202 Location: MA, Boston Strong
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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thatvwbusguy wrote: |
Here is the proceedure to jumper the starter via the ignition switch socket. I copied this from a post a while back and can't remember who originally wrote it at this point. Anyway, here goes.......
Ignition Switch Bypass - Jumper Wire Starting Method:
Remove the plastic cover from the steering column and pull the black socket off the bottom of the ignition switch.
Insert a jumper wire between the large red wire and the solid black wire (a bent paper clip works well, but will get hot, so be careful). You should hear the fuel pump run at this point.
If you hear the fuel pump, leave the first jumper (large red to black) in place and insert another jumper wire between the large red wire and the red/white wire. This is your starter wire.
The engine should turn over at this point. If the engine starts, remove the big red to red/white jumper wire immediately. If you don't remove this jumper, the starter will continue to run just like holding the key in the start position. |
Jay, thanks for that procedure, it worked like a charm. Our ignition switch fried just last night. Your timing was perfect!
Thanks, so much. _________________ '85 Wolfsburg Edition Westfalia Weekender, Zetec #36, w/ Peloquin TBD
'83.5 Westfalia, full camper (we'll never forget you) |
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